With a SIPA system, I am filling the piping if a detector activates. I'm not sure I agree that this affords the same degree of protection as a DIPA system, which would also require a sprinkler activation before water enters the piping.
I agree that a DIPA system for a closet is overkill. But, if this is what the customer considers the value of his peace on mind.... Most of our data center clients would have a fit if I told them we would flood the system piping whenever a smoke detector (or 2) activated. The cost for a DIPA system, or multiple systems, is peanuts on a large data center project. Ray Schmid -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 5:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Server Closet Presuming you were going to use a pre-action valve why would anyone use a DIPA in anything other than a freezer warehouse? Wouldn't a SIPA give you the same degree of protection anywhere that freezing the water in the pipes due to accidental tripping wasn't a concern? And for far less cost and complexity. Just a question since this pre-action thing popped up again and no one seems to even consider less than DIPA in any application. On 4/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > George, > Like if you had put those pipe labels with the directional arrows on > them you wouldn't like need to worry about gravity, the water will like > know where to go. > > Geez, rookie. > > LOL > > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Group > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.lg.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George > Church > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:48 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Server Closet > > We try to go with high-temp concealed heads, too- K.I.S.S. instead of > DIPA, or a basketball of halon/purpleK with a spkr stuck in it > (CeaseFire). > > Recently bid a doozie- 15,000 sf emergency services bldg for the county. > 2 DIPA, one rm 9 hds, 1 was 12. FM200 in another, wet throughout the > rest. > Now the good part- dry uprights were shown to protect the attic- they'd > be 20' long, and pitched to be perpendicular to the 4/12 roof!!! > Realizing their mistake, they issued an addendum to provide a dry-pipe > system in the attic, except DIPA above the 3 rooms listed above. 4 > systems in the attic! > > Icing on the cake- tank buried outside, atmospheric vent at grade, water > to ignore gravity and jump up into the VI pump. Naturally we had to put > a transfer switch on it, since power (and the building) would be lost > before any water came out. > > $22/sf and it wouldn't work (except the FM 200). Sealed by a PE. > > Why would you stack kindling atop a bulletproof concept? > > glc > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris > Cahill > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Server Closet > > And these same nit wits don't care about sinks and toilets, severe > weather, roof leaks, electrical issues, floods and all the other > possible causes of damage. When I ask if they considered all the other > possible sources of damage or interruption with fire or sprinklers being > among the least probable they usually put it in the new context and drop > the issue. Or at least stop pushing to spend the owner's money (vs. > theirs) and compromise on a concealer and high temp. > > Bigger rooms with high value critical infrastructure for a mutli-million > business then maybe DIPA. But these are usually multiple redundant > remote systems and thus any one site is not important and they accept > the risk all > 3 (or more) won't have problems at the same time. > > I'm not sure what John Drucker means about IFC 904.2. But be careful > about substituting alternate agents for sprinklers. 904.2 ('00 ed.) > last sentence may mean if the sprinklers are not in the room (closet) it > is an unsprinklered building. The only exceptions are in 903.3.1.1.1 > and I don't see server rooms covered. At least the way I read it > alternate agents are > not sprinklers. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:22 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Server Closet > > The dry sidewall might appease them if all they were worried about was > an intermittent drip. What I hear more often is the fear of someone > busting the head and millions of gallons of water dumping into the > closet resulting in numerous IT personnel drownings and electronic > equipment getting wet and ruined. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Group > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.lg.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom > Duross > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 3:15 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Server Closet > > Thanks. > One of my thoughts to offer them was a dry type sidewall. > I can get it set about 10" below the steel deck and still hide the pipe > above the corridor drop ceiling. > Maybe in a 360 degree rating? It would keep the water (wata) out of the > room. > > Tom > > Dual Interlock Pre-Action? > > For one head in a closet? YIPERS! > > > DIPA?? > In my best Sherman: "Gee Mr. Peabody, what's that?" > > Tom > > Sounds like they're concerned with water damage and not mission > continuity. I would recommend a DIPA system. Either way, it seems like > a lot of effort for one sprinkler. > > Inergen would likely require pressure relief venting. > > Ray Schmid > > I was wondering if I could get recommendations of advice to give a > client. > Their IT guy is bugging them about a head we put in a server closet. > It's just a 6' w x 3' deep closet with their rack and a little ductless > ac unit. > No raised floor, liebert or big ups equipment and certainly not sealed. > I offered high temp head but they're scared about water (wata). > Should I suggest total flooding inergen? Low temp rate of rise heat > detector? > I have to have an exhaust system installed with inergen, right? > I think they'd have to enclose the closet to keep in the gas. > > Thanks, > > Tom Duross > Go Red Sox > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
