Read that back, I did.
At 08:56 AM 4/24/2007, you wrote:
Welding, grinding, cutting of steel and or aluminum? Dust, filings?
Non-hazardous?
Gee I read that back and it sounded like
Yoda.............................
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd
Williams - work
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System
Wouldn't "fabricating steel pressure vessels" involve welding?
At 03:08 AM 4/24/2007, you wrote:
>The building code I have to use, has three group F divisions for
>industrial occupancies. F1 is "high hazard", F2 is "medium hazard" and
>F3 is "low hazard". The building is to be used for fabricating steel
pressure vessels.
>No painting or sand blasting, as they have a separate building for
>that. I agree with Steve. Though the building construction is steel and
>concrete, and storage would be steel pressure vessels, there could be
>processes involving combustible and flammable liquids. The consultants
>retained by the owner seems to think the applicable occupancy is F3. It
>has not been approved yet, but I think they are in for a rude shock.
>
>If (a big IF) it is classified as group F3, the building code permits a
>one storey building of non-combustible construction to be unlimited
>floor area and not required to be sprinklered. The building has to be
>"used solely for low fire load occupancies such as (a) power generating
>plants or (b) plants for the manufacture or storage of non-combustible
materials."
>
>Can someone give me an example of the IBC requirements for "exits" for
>sprinklered vs. non-sprinklered buildings?
>
>The standpipe requirement is from the local building code, which limits
>the building area unless a standpipe system or sprinkler system is
provided.
>Also, it is required, for the 60 foot building height. For now, they
>have asked me to tell them how much water storage will be required for
>a standpipe system. We are still on the 1996 edition of NFPA 14
>(adoption of the newer codes are pending and will be pretty soon, but
>not yet). So the approach I thought of using was considering each hose
>connection as a standpipe and calculating 250 gpm per hose connection
>up to a maximum of 1250 gpm for 30 minutes. This volume of water will
>be provided to the hose connections through the fire department
connection, by the fire department.
>But would I need to make an additional allowance for fire department
>outside hoses. One fire truck could be pumping into the fire department
>connection while another is drawing from the same water supply for
>additional hose lines?
>
>Actually 300,000 sq.ft. is only phase 1, phase 2 is an addition of
>another 300,000 sq.ft. With a 60 foot building height it would be a
monster.
>
>I'm trying to get them to go with a sprinkler system. But would one be
>effective with that height? Any alternative suggestions?
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard
>Malek
>Sent: April 23, 2007 6:51 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System
>
>Tony,
>I assume you have a unlimited area F-2 (non-spinklered, one story with
>the required public way/yard widths), that's how you're getting the
300K sq. ft.
>unsprinklered bldg (507.2 in 2006 IBC)? If that's the case, where are
>you getting the "where required" standpipe requirement from the
>building code? I don't see it, is that a local requirement?
>
>Richard Malek
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of A.P.Silva
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:16 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System
>
>
>A standpipe system is required due to size, for an unsprinklered
building.
>It is a building code requirement. I'm trying to encourage the owner to
>sprinkler it to avoid a standpipe system and a larger water storage
>requirement. So I need to calculate the water storage for sprinklers
>and standpipe, for comparison.
>
>The class III is also from the building code, which requires both 2
1/2"
>hose connections (due to floor area) and 1 1/2" hose stations.
>
>Tony
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
>Leyton
>Sent: April 23, 2007 12:58 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System
>
>Why is there a Class III standpipe required in the first place?
>
>Steve Leyton
>PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>A.P.Silva
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:48 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System
>
>I'm designing a class 3 standpipe system for a single storey 300,000
>sq.ft.
>metal fabrication plant. No city water, so needs a water storage pond.
>
>I'm trying to figure out the required storage volume. NFPA requires 500
>gpm from the most remote standpipe and 500 gpm from each additional
>stand pipe (for floor area exceeding 80,000 sq.ft.) with total not
>exceeding 1250 gpm, for a duration of 30 minutes. My opinion is that
>NFPA 14 mostly covers multi-storey buildings. When it's single storey,
>should I take each hose connection as a standpipe and flow 250 gpm per
>connection, up to maximum 1250 gpm? It is probably the safest, as it
>would be the most conservative.
>Has anyone come across this situation?
>
>The other question is regarding hose allowance for fire department.
>(The building code water supply requirement does not apply in my area,
>if the building has either a sprinkler or standpipe system.) NFPA 14
>requires a standpipe system to be designed for the system demand and
>fire department connections. It says to consult the AHJ for water
>supply from fire department pumper. Would it be system demand OR demand
>for fire department pumper (the larger value and not both
>simultaneously)? Or should a hose allowance be used same as for a
>sprinkler system? If so, for what duration?
>
>Another question (while I'm at it), NFPA 14 requires lateral piping to
>2 1/2" hose connections to be protected if the building is not
>sprinklered. Up to now I've never seen piping in a single storey
>building in fire rated enclosures. Is it required?
>
>Tony
>
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
860-535-2080
www.fpdc.com
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Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
860-535-2080
www.fpdc.com
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