Welding, grinding, cutting of steel and or aluminum? Dust, filings? Non-hazardous?
Gee I read that back and it sounded like Yoda............................. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Williams - work Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System Wouldn't "fabricating steel pressure vessels" involve welding? At 03:08 AM 4/24/2007, you wrote: >The building code I have to use, has three group F divisions for >industrial occupancies. F1 is "high hazard", F2 is "medium hazard" and >F3 is "low hazard". The building is to be used for fabricating steel pressure vessels. >No painting or sand blasting, as they have a separate building for >that. I agree with Steve. Though the building construction is steel and >concrete, and storage would be steel pressure vessels, there could be >processes involving combustible and flammable liquids. The consultants >retained by the owner seems to think the applicable occupancy is F3. It >has not been approved yet, but I think they are in for a rude shock. > >If (a big IF) it is classified as group F3, the building code permits a >one storey building of non-combustible construction to be unlimited >floor area and not required to be sprinklered. The building has to be >"used solely for low fire load occupancies such as (a) power generating >plants or (b) plants for the manufacture or storage of non-combustible materials." > >Can someone give me an example of the IBC requirements for "exits" for >sprinklered vs. non-sprinklered buildings? > >The standpipe requirement is from the local building code, which limits >the building area unless a standpipe system or sprinkler system is provided. >Also, it is required, for the 60 foot building height. For now, they >have asked me to tell them how much water storage will be required for >a standpipe system. We are still on the 1996 edition of NFPA 14 >(adoption of the newer codes are pending and will be pretty soon, but >not yet). So the approach I thought of using was considering each hose >connection as a standpipe and calculating 250 gpm per hose connection >up to a maximum of 1250 gpm for 30 minutes. This volume of water will >be provided to the hose connections through the fire department connection, by the fire department. >But would I need to make an additional allowance for fire department >outside hoses. One fire truck could be pumping into the fire department >connection while another is drawing from the same water supply for >additional hose lines? > >Actually 300,000 sq.ft. is only phase 1, phase 2 is an addition of >another 300,000 sq.ft. With a 60 foot building height it would be a monster. > >I'm trying to get them to go with a sprinkler system. But would one be >effective with that height? Any alternative suggestions? > >Tony > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard >Malek >Sent: April 23, 2007 6:51 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System > >Tony, >I assume you have a unlimited area F-2 (non-spinklered, one story with >the required public way/yard widths), that's how you're getting the 300K sq. ft. >unsprinklered bldg (507.2 in 2006 IBC)? If that's the case, where are >you getting the "where required" standpipe requirement from the >building code? I don't see it, is that a local requirement? > >Richard Malek >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of A.P.Silva >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:16 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System > > >A standpipe system is required due to size, for an unsprinklered building. >It is a building code requirement. I'm trying to encourage the owner to >sprinkler it to avoid a standpipe system and a larger water storage >requirement. So I need to calculate the water storage for sprinklers >and standpipe, for comparison. > >The class III is also from the building code, which requires both 2 1/2" >hose connections (due to floor area) and 1 1/2" hose stations. > >Tony > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve >Leyton >Sent: April 23, 2007 12:58 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System > >Why is there a Class III standpipe required in the first place? > >Steve Leyton >PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >A.P.Silva >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:48 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Water supply NFPA 14 Standpipe & Hose System > >I'm designing a class 3 standpipe system for a single storey 300,000 >sq.ft. >metal fabrication plant. No city water, so needs a water storage pond. > >I'm trying to figure out the required storage volume. NFPA requires 500 >gpm from the most remote standpipe and 500 gpm from each additional >stand pipe (for floor area exceeding 80,000 sq.ft.) with total not >exceeding 1250 gpm, for a duration of 30 minutes. My opinion is that >NFPA 14 mostly covers multi-storey buildings. When it's single storey, >should I take each hose connection as a standpipe and flow 250 gpm per >connection, up to maximum 1250 gpm? It is probably the safest, as it >would be the most conservative. >Has anyone come across this situation? > >The other question is regarding hose allowance for fire department. >(The building code water supply requirement does not apply in my area, >if the building has either a sprinkler or standpipe system.) NFPA 14 >requires a standpipe system to be designed for the system demand and >fire department connections. It says to consult the AHJ for water >supply from fire department pumper. Would it be system demand OR demand >for fire department pumper (the larger value and not both >simultaneously)? Or should a hose allowance be used same as for a >sprinkler system? If so, for what duration? > >Another question (while I'm at it), NFPA 14 requires lateral piping to >2 1/2" hose connections to be protected if the building is not >sprinklered. Up to now I've never seen piping in a single storey >building in fire rated enclosures. Is it required? > >Tony > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, Connecticut 860-535-2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
