Good question. I believe it will possibly help but do not know how much. This is why RelMark has asked for testing to determine what is correct answer at certain humidity, pressure and fitting not all the way home.
Top Myers RelMark Group 961 Pottstown Pike Chester Springs, PA 19425 O - 610-321-2415 X-219, C - 610-952-0965 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of art Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Plastic cure times A novice question: Could a heat lamp or other heat source reduce the cure time if only a few joints are involved so an entire system is not out service for over 24 hours? -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Top Myers Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Plastic cure times The sprinkler industry is experiencing water damage losses from CPVC piping. There have been many large dollar catastrophic losses and almost always in a service situation. After visiting contractors and there fitters all over the country who had such losses we realized how important cure time was to these losses. In new construction most joints have days or weeks to cure before water is applied so a joint that is not perfect will cure with no problem. In a service situation this is just not the case in the real world. Many good contractors with experienced trained fitters got burnt. However, at RelMark, the loss activity related to improperly joining of piping has decreased to the point where these types of claims are nearly non-existent with our insured. The reason? RelMark Program Managers requires our contracting partners to practice standard cut-in procedures that include a minimum of 24-hour cure time for all modifications or repairs made to CPVC piping. There are many variables to insuring the proper joining of two pieces of CPVC piping. The temperature, humidity, pipe size, age of the solvent cement, cut of the pipe, or dirt or moisture on the pipe, can all affect the time needed for the proper curing of the cement. Because it is difficult for field installers to weigh all the variables and adjust for appropriate cure times for each cut-in, RelMark Program Managers Cut-In Procedures require a minimum 24-hour cure time before introducing water into the sprinkler piping. With a 24-hour cure time, the sprinkler system, or a portion of the sprinkler system, will be out of service while the cement cures. It is important that the building owners understand their responsibility in maintaining a safe environment during the system modification/repair. Written notification of the length of cure time must be shared with the building owner prior to initiating work. If using a contract, the standard wording should be added to the document. Otherwise, a standard 'Shut Down Notification' should be developed and signed by the building owner before work is initiated. The following is sample language for your consideration. Sample Wording for 24-Hour Minimum Cure Time: We, (name of sprinkler contractor), are providing notification to you (name of building owner) that we will be altering the CPVC piping in your building as part of the sprinkler system repair or modification. To assure proper operation when completed, CPVC piping components require a minimum cure time of 24 hours. As such, your sprinkler system will be shut down and out of service for at least 24 hours. You are responsible for instituting and maintaining a fire watch in the building while the sprinkler system is out of service. You must provide your property insurance carrier with advance notification of the sprinkler shut down. You may be asked by your property insurer to take additional precautions. We, (name of sprinkler contractor), are not responsible for fire, or other bodily injury or property damage that could result due to lack of sprinkler system response during the shut down period. If a building owner needs additional information as to why you, as the sprinkler contractor, are asking for lengthy down times on the sprinkler system, feel free to share the first page of this document with the individual(s). Education and understanding of the hazard will aid in compliance of the cure times. Of course the standard check with your lawyer... Top Myers RelMark Group 961 Pottstown Pike Chester Springs, PA 19425 O - 610-321-2415 X-219, C - 610-952-0965 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Deason Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Plastic cure times Ron Greenman wrote: > Chris, > > Cure times are in the manufactures' literature at are specific to pipe > size and ambient temperature per manufacturer (or at least supplier of > resin). Make sure you file documentation with the job file as to what > you did since it may save you later. I've heard of a suit involving a > penthouse apartment and a Monet that questioned cure time that is > around $8M. > > On 10/19/07, Todd Williams - FPDC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> It seems to me I read somewhere something about 24 hours cure time >> before a 200# test >> >> >> >> At 03:09 PM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >> >>> It is going to be in the book for the type pipe you are using. The cure >>> times are listed, but there is an area in most of them for reno's to >>> existing plastic. I can't remember seeing 24 hours before. I think that is >>> just a standard SOP for most companies. Watch the Temp changes because after >>> a certain temp, you can't even work with plastic until you bring the room to >>> a minimum temp. >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> Matthew J. Willis >>> Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. >>> 1160 McKenzie Rd. >>> PO Box 877 >>> Cantonment, FL. 32533 >>> 850-937-1850 Voice >>> 850-937-1852 Facsimile >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> ----- >-----Original Message----- >>> ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> ----- >Behalf Of Chris Cahill >>> ----- >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:05 PM >>> ----- >To: [email protected] >>> ----- >Subject: Plastic cure times >>> ----- > >>> ----- >We don't do a lot of plastic work and what little we do >>> ----- >is new work. We >>> ----- >seem to recall we're supposed to allow the glue to cure >>> ----- >for 24 hrs before returning an existing system to >>> ----- >service. Even longer for 2" and larger. >>> ----- >But when we look at 2 different manufactures recommended >>> ----- >guidelines they don't match our memory. We can go 1.5 >>> ----- >hours for 1" and 8 hours for 2" and up for brand A and >>> ----- >30 minutes up to 2" and 1.5 hrs for larger for brand B. >>> ----- >Has the glue changed that much the 24 hrs is no longer >>> ----- >valid? Has our memory just failed and it never was 24 >>> ----- >hrs? Does the 24 hrs. come from some other source? >>> ----- >What are some of your policies on modifying existing CPVC? >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- >Chris Cahill, P.E. >>> ----- > >>> ----- >Fire Protection Engineer >>> ----- > >>> ----- >Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- >763-658-4483 >>> ----- > >>> ----- >763-658-4921 fax >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- >Mail: P.O. Box 69 >>> ----- > >>> ----- > Waverly, MN 55390 >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- >Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >>> ----- > >>> ----- > Waverly, MN 55390 >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- > >>> ----- >_______________________________________________ >>> ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> ----- >[email protected] >>> ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> ----- > >>> ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >> Todd G. Williams, PE >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> Stonington, Connecticut >> www.fpdc.com >> 860.535.2080 >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> > > > We are in the middle of renewing our general liability insurance and every insurer wants a mandatory 24 hour cure time on CPVC regardless of size, ambient temperature or whether renovation or new. We have even had two companies that would refuse to insure if the 24 hour cure time did not become company policy. Jim Deason Priority Fire Protection, Inc. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
