Installing a sidewall would be a pain in the extreme lower back.
At 03:44 PM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
While I also remember Chris saying this he also pointed out that
there where AHJ's that will not use common sense when Appling the standards.
When I look at your bathroom and soffit situation I look for a
Residential head listed for 12" down from the ceiling. Spaced
properly between your soffits, probably a HSW you can meet the
obstructions because your deflector is even with the bottom of the
soffits so your spray will cover under the obstructions.
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: 13 residential obstructions
During a seminar at an AFSA convention (not last yr, probably 06) Chris
Dubay noted it was not the intent of the committee to require multiple heads
in closets, bathrooms, and other small rooms. He stated if this was
requested by an AHJ, he'd be happy to write a letter reiterating what he
said.
Since then, he's been elevated to chief engineer and VP, not to mention the
standards council and James Hall sits in his old chair as staff liason to
#13.
I'd imagine Mr. Hall would respond to a similar request, and you can get an
informal interpretation from AFSA. If you know any #13 committee members,
one of them might write a similar letter.
Greg, unless you omit PE from after your name for some reason, you're in the
same boat I'm in- we can have opinions, but we can't render them into
anything of substance.
Todd, you have that cursed responsibility that comes with being a RDP. It's
a fine line to where you can and cannot omit heads along this logic, and
unwritten rules and "understandings" are tough to point to! While a 90 SF
bathroom may not need a 2nd and certainly not a 3rd head, would it if it
were 110 SF? We put a second residential head in #13R systems when a 10x12
bedroom has a ceiling fan. Is it needed? Under the rules of the game, YES.
Just as your 90 SF bathroom needs additional heads. We don't want to under
protect a bedroom, especially with a fan possibly delaying operation of a
head. The case could be made that most people are awake when in a bathroom,
and the "intent" rule could be applied.
I'd pursue some interpretation- from NFPA, AFSA, or the local AHJ- in
writing, and stick a head in the bathroom.
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 1:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 13 residential obstructions
I believe Roland and others interpret pockets to be greater than 12" deep. I
also believe common sense MUST be used in some cases and 3 sprinklers in a
90 sqft bathroom would probably not make a significant improvement of life
safety or property protection in my humble opinion based on many discussions
with the manufacturer's tech support in issues similar to this.
Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 13 residential obstructions
Can you cover the room with a single sidewall sprinkler installed flush with
the bottom of the soffits/bulkheads? Use a residential sprinkler listed for
upto 12 inches below the ceiling. The flow for the 0.1 density might still
be greater than the listed flow for 12 inches below the ceiling.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Williams
- FPDC
Sent: January 29, 2008 5:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 13 residential obstructions
I am working on a modification to an existing system in a residential
occupancy. The design basis for the system is NFPA 13 (2002) Section
11.2.3.5 (4 residential sprinkelrs, 0.10 density). In the revision, the
architect has added soffits and drop ceiling areas in certain rooms. As an
example, in the bathroom (>54 sqft), there are two areas where the ceiling
is 1 ft lower than the rest of the space, and greater than 30" from the
wall. Due to the size of the room, the distance required for obstructions
against a wall cannot be met.
Section 8-10, which covers installation of residential sprinklers, does not
incorporate the same criteria for ceiling pockets as the sections for
commercial sprinklers. This being the case, the bathroom will require 3
sprinklers instead of 1 if the soffits are not there.
The entire room is 90 square feet. Three sprinklers does seem like overkill.
We could switch to a commercial quick response sprinkler for this space, but
I do not necessarily want to mix residential and commercial within a unit.
It could create problems down the road for maintenance. This project has
enough of a sordid history. Any thoughts?
Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080
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