Ed,
You answered your own question in your question... [sounds kinda weird huh?]

NFPA #13R 2007: 5.3.3 Where antifreeze systems, dry pipe systems, and
preaction systems are installed, they shall be installed in accordance with
NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems.

NFPA #13R 2007: 6.8.4, "Piping shall be sized using hydraulic calculation
procedures in accordance with NFPA 13."

-B-



On 4/17/08, Joe Hankins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It doesn't  matter in a 13R system. It came into the standard when
> antifreeze ESFR systems were being considered, where the delay in full water
> delivery for a minute would be a big problem. That's the problem with the
> written word, it says what it says, not what the committee meant!
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> Fletcher, Ron wrote:
>
> > Does it really matter? The antifreeze is only in the pipe, it's not in
> > the water supply. After the initial fill is gone it's just plain water.
> > It doesn't seem like a friction loss different from plain water for the
> > first minute or less is going to make much of difference. If your local
> > sprinkler scientist (AHJ) wants the antifreeze mixture calc how would
> > you account for the gradual dilution of the mixer as clean water enters
> > the system? The viscosity wouldn't be a constant. Sounds like calc with
> > a computer, measure with a caliper, mark with chalk and cut off with an
> > axe.
> >
> > Ron Fletcher
> > Aero Automatic
> > Phoenix, AZ
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland
> > Huggins
> > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:28 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: 13R antifreeze calc
> >
> > the ability of the chosen equation to reasonable predict friction  lose
> > is not a function of what standard requires the calculation.   The sub-zero
> > antifreeze systems with a high viscosity started this ball
> > rolling and nothing says at more normal temperatures (like 20 F) the
> > viscosity issue doesn't matter (so the academic hat is overshadowing the
> > practicality hat in this debate).
> >
> > Roland
> >
> > On Apr 17, 2008, at 2:59 PM, Ed Kramer wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Forum members - your opinions on the following situation, please:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Design standard is 13R 2007 edition.  System type will be antifreeze
> > > with a volume exceeding 40 gallon.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Per 13R section 6.8.4, "Piping shall be sized using hydraulic
> > > calculation
> > > procedures in accordance with NFPA 13".   NFPA 13 says to use the
> > > Darcy-Weisbach method (section 22.4.4.5.1).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you think it's the intent of 13R to require the calcs be done using
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Darcy-Weisbach?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed Kramer
> > >
> > > Littleton, CO
> > >
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