I doubt if they ever know where he  is. He lives around the corner
from me and I never see him.

On 4/18/08, Steve Leyton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Oh, puh-LEEZE.   If you keep talking like that he'll be even more
>  insufferable than he is already.  Have you no consideration for AFSA
>  staff??  They have to deal with him on an almost-daily basis!    Gently,
>  Ed.  Gently.
>
>  Steve Leyton
>  Protection Design & Consulting
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer
>  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 11:42 AM
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: RE: NFPA 13 Building with residential heads
>
>  Thanks for the enlightenment, Roland.
>
>  You certainly deserve a PhD (and we're glad you do!)
>  I'm jealous, I'm still working on an MS (More of the Same)
>
>  Ed Kramer
>  Littleton, CO
>
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:sprinklerforum-
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins
>  > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 11:24 AM
>  > To: [email protected]
>  > Subject: Re: NFPA 13 Building with residential heads
>  >
>  > My turn on the box
>  >
>  > Allow me to suggest you broader your stance on why the residential
>  > also requires 0.10.  Your statement is mostly correct BUT that bit of
>  > history was driven by a different cause.  Remember way back to the
>  > end of the last decade when we were down to a resultant density of
>  > around 0.032 gpm/sf for residential sprinklers.  A hoopla arouse
>  > regarding labs performing repeat tests on listed sprinklers that did
>  > not control the fire.  This resulted in a change in the Expanded FOAM
>  > used by the labs to simulate furniture as part of UL 1626 for listing
>  > residential sprinklers.  It turned out that the prior foam had heat
>  > release rates that varied greatly.  This also resulted in a change in
>  > 13D/R that defined a minimum density of 0.05 gpm/sf.   A secondary
>  > realization was that the test duration in UL1626 was only 10
>  > minutes.  This aligned perfectly with the goal of 13D but shall we
>  > say is lacking for a high rise condo.  Although we had NO loses
>  > attributed to this issue we needed better correlation between the
>  > testing of the sprinkler and it application.  A reasonable and
>  > immediate fix was to require a 0.1 gpm/sf to be applied concurrent to
>  > the listing criteria and apply which ever produced the greater
>  > demand.  This provided assurance that we had adequate life safety AND
>  > property protection.
>  >
>  > Since then UL 1626 has been expanded to a 30 minute duration fire
>  > test but the hybrid spray-residential sprinkler approach is not going
>  > anywhere.
>  >
>  > You can have your box back but wear boots since I sometimes pile it
>  > kinda high.  Can I be awarded a PhD (Pile it Higher & Deeper)
>  >
>  > Roland (happy with a BS - with not providing)
>  >
>  > On Apr 18, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Ed Kramer wrote:
>  > >>
>  > > Property protection is property protection, whether the sprinkler
>  > > used is a SSP or residential. That's the exact reason why a .10 gpm/
>  > > sf density is required when using residential sprinklers.  So even
>  > > though I don't think the 3,000 sf DA is required, I think it should
>  > > be.
>  > >
>  > > Exit soapbox, stage right.
>  > > Ed Kramer
>  >
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-- 
Ron Greenman
at home....
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