Art, Where does the 15 seconds come from? I can't find anything in 13. Is it 101? is it a local requirement?
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Arthur Tiroly <[email protected]> wrote: > I may be over thinking this problem. But I see an elderly person in a wheel > chair that can care fore himself but may not move very fast in an emergency. > Dry system activation will delay water application resulting in a longer > pre-burn and a more likely poor outcome to the survivor. That's why we have > wet residential QR systems. Also why we have a 15 sec. water deliver > requirement. > > Arthur Tiroly > ATCO Fire Protection Design > Tiroly and Associates > 3300 King Ave > Cleveland, OH 44114 > 216-621-8899 > 216-570-7030 cell > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:50 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: RESIDENTIAL OCCOPANCY DRY SYSTEM > > Maybe I'm missing something here. This is a full NFPA 13 and it would > be considered a Light Hazard occupancy. It is fed from a dry system > so you would design the system based on a 1950 sqft area. QR > sprinklers are also required in all Light Hazard occupancies. What is > the issue? > > You said "It is my understanding that sprinklers in an elderly > housing assisted living apartment facility is primarily life safety." > Why? Is there some Code issue that is driving this? Life safety is an > obvious part of what we do, but in a full NFPA 13 system, property > protection is added in as well. NFPA 13R (and 13D) are primarily > life safety standards, but 13 is the full monty. Is there some > evidence out there that the delay caused by dry systems is having > impact on life safety? > > Remember life safety systems typically discharge at 0.05 gpm/sqft and > LH systems at 0.10 gpm/sqft. That is a lot more water out of an LH > system. Could not the additional water make up for the delay due to > evacuating the air? > > Of course the question I've had is if a sprinkler on a dry system > activates relatively close to the fire, does the rush of air from the > sprinkler actually make the fire more intense? > > > > > At 04:13 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: >>The residential units are supplied from a dry system located in the attic. >>That was the whole basis for my question. I felt the dry system would take >>too long to get water to the sprinklers in the residential units. Thanks > for >>your input. >> >>Arthur Tiroly >>ATCO Fire Protection Design >>Tiroly and Associates >>3300 King Ave >>Cleveland, OH 44114 >>216-621-8899 >>216-570-7030 cell >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave >>Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:29 PM >>To: Sprinkler Forum >>Subject: RE: RESIDENTIAL OCCOPANCY DRY SYSTEM >> >>Im not sure but are we saying that the dry system also supplies the heads > IN >>the top floor dwelling / client rooms ??? >> >>There is currently no listed residential sprinkler for dry systems nor the >>DPV .... the use of dry systems in 13 for residential occupancies requires >>water delivery time of 15 seconds ..... The NFPA 13 committee put in the >>permission to do dry residential systems but with the 15 seconds ahead of >>any such equipment being made just in case it came out before the next >>cycle. During a test burn we intentionally left water off for one minute >>past the head fusing just to see .... it didnt go well and the room was >>beyond the permissible tenability standards of UL1626 prior to suppression. >>In other words ..... you can do it currently - maybe someday in the future. >> >>The attic alone could be a dry system under the rules but if they also drop >>into the living space we have a problem. >> >>Dave P. >>An AHJ in NJ >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
