Bruce, Did Tony mention at plastic structure under the sheet metal and if there is how would a fire in this metal encapsulated start and how would it get oxygen? At Cheyenne Mountain I heard someone once say, "But what if it's a 5.5 megaton device?" (Cheyenne Mountain being designed to withstand a direct hit by a 5.0 thermo-nuclear device). I can make anything burn if I have enough heat and oxygen but at some point I have to back off the what-ifs. In fact talking about this to WSAFM is what got me my fine reputation amongst many of your fellow travelers. Suffice it to say they totally missed my point given their inability to back away from their own mindset which is the correct mindset for a fire prevention officer to have as long as it doesn't come with a large dose of hubris and an inability to see the point of view of the enemy (in this case NAHB/BIAW). But I've strayed and lost most of readers in a local issue. What-iffing can go on ad naseum. The question is, "Is this thing part of the building or is it furnishing?" and I tend to think the latter. That is, to say it once again, if my mental image is correct about what this thing is and I know that my image does not involve a ten foot tall "thing," a walk-in capability, the ability to use it for general storage, or large surfaces of plastics, and that's because it was never described with any of those conditions present.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:33 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > We are all used to think about the contents being the big fuel source. In > this case the plastic structure, covered with light sheet metal for > durability and cleanliness purposes, is likely the big fuel source. > > Bruce Verhei > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:13:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: Walk-in cooler > > George, > > I don't recall it being described as "big insulated panel box.' In > fact I think Tony said he hadn't seen it. Go back a post or two. My > thought is that if this thing is a factory manufactured device that > is brought out on a truck, dropped off and plugged-in (even if it > comes in large sub-assemblies that just plug into each other) then > it's a big reefer and not a room or space. > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 8:02 AM, George Church <[email protected]> wrote: >> Sounds like it ought to be treated more like a walkin box to me, despite the >> lack of walk-in. Its still a big insulated panel box full of product. >> Since hte product is pretty non-flam, maybe local AHJ, etc would bless >> omitting >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 10:11 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Walk-in cooler >> >> George, >> >> This is a dispensing unit and I doubt we'd dispense flammable liquids >> from a similar device. Sprinklers in this case, I believe, would be >> similar to sprinklering the inside of the entertainment center because >> it's big or the dresser because it's a storage facility for textile >> products in transit. That is, of course, if Tony's unit is just a big >> refrigerator. >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 5:02 AM, George Church <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Would we consider different treatment if it were stocked with combustibles >>> or flammable liquids? >>> >>> glc >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron >> Greenman >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:40 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Walk-in cooler >>> >>> Tony, >>> >>> I like the idea that it may be a large appliance. We don't sprinkler >>> the Coke machine or the Red Bull machine. Is this thing constructed on >>> site or is it brought in as a unit. If the latter and since you can't >>> walk in I'd call it an appliance and not a room (or space). >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 8:15 PM, A.P.Silva <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Haven't seen the cooler. Someone asked me whether it should be >>> sprinklered. >>>> I will have to find out, but meanwhile I'm guessing it is stocked from >>>> behind, the same as milk coolers in stores. Cooler inside or outside? Not >>>> sure if I understand the question and its significance. Being a beer >>> cooler, >>>> it would be cooler inside than outside. >>>> >>>> Tony >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd >>> Williams >>>> Sent: April 23, 2009 2:35 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: RE: Walk-in cooler >>>> >>>> Is it stocked from the front or is there a walkway behind the pickers? >>>> Cooler inside or outside? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 04:17 PM 4/23/2009, you wrote: >>>>>An update as I've additional information. >>>>> >>>>>The cooler is 30' long 4' wide and 7' high. It has glass doors and open >>>>>metal shelves. So you grab the beer closest to you and the next one >> slides >>>>>forward. When stocked full, there is hardly any empty space inside. You >>>>>might see similar ones in stores that sell liqour. Does it have to be >>>>>sprinklered? >>>>> >>>>>Tony >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: [email protected] >>>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest >>>> Wilson >>>>>Sent: April 23, 2009 12:48 PM >>>>>To: [email protected] >>>>>Subject: Re: Walk-in cooler >>>>> >>>>>They can also shut down the cooler and use for general storage. >>>>>I saw one after it burned. It was like a crushed can. >>>>>Forest Wilson >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: "A.P.Silva" <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:16:20 >>>>>To: <[email protected]> >>>>>Subject: RE: Walk-in cooler >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Exactly, though one difference may be in this case, the storage quantity >>>> may >>>>>be more. I think this is a grey area in NFPA. We provide heads in walk-in >>>>>freezers and coolers. But what are the chances for a fire inside these? >>>>>Haven't heard of any, but I suppose there could be an electrical fault >>> that >>>>>could start a fire. >>>>> >>>>>Tony >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: [email protected] >>>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris >>> Cahill >>>>>Sent: April 23, 2009 11:02 AM >>>>>To: [email protected] >>>>>Subject: RE: Walk-in cooler >>>>> >>>>>Doesn't sound much different than the milk cooler or pop cooler or the >>>>>freezer isle in a grocery or Qwik Mart. Never saw sprinklers in these. >>>>>Argument is it's large appliance. >>>>> >>>>>Chris Cahill, P.E. >>>>>Fire Protection Engineer >>>>>Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >>>>> >>>>>763-658-4483 >>>>>763-658-4921 fax >>>>> >>>>>Email: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>Mail: P.O. Box 69 >>>>> Waverly, MN 55390 >>>>> >>>>>Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >>>>> Waverly, MN 55390 >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: [email protected] >>>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva >>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 11:14 AM >>>>>To: [email protected] >>>>>Subject: Walk-in cooler >>>>> >>>>>Generally the industry practice (from what I know) is to provide >>> sprinklers >>>>>in walk-in coolers and freezers. The cooler I am looking at is a beer >>>> cooler >>>>>approx. 30 feet long, 10 feet deep and 7 feet high. It is full with >>>> shelves, >>>>>and no one could "walk-in". Would it have to be sprinklered? Anyone has >>>> come >>>>>across a similar situation or have any opinions? >>>>> >>>>>Tony >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> Todd G. Williams, PE >>>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>>> Stonington, Connecticut >>>> www.fpdc.com >>>> 860.535.2080 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ron Greenman >>> at home.... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> at home.... >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
