George No, this is in Stirling Castle
The hotel fire was in the Scandic Crown - there are five sprinklered hotels in the Edinburgh area: Caledonian Hilton Edinburgh Hotel Dalmahoy Marriott Hotel & Country Club Edinburgh Marriott Hotel Sheraton Grand Hotel & Spa Next time you are over you can find a list of sprinklered hotels in Europe at: http://www.eurosprinkler.org/ Aye yours Stewart On 14 May 2009, at 14:04, George Church wrote: > At the bottom of the Royal Mile, Edinborrraaacccggghh? > > Maybe we'll stay there instead of the mid-mile unsprinklered fiasco, > where > they didn't learn from the mistakes of others! > > glc > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Stewart Kidd > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 8:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Reasons to not sprinkler a pharmaceutical plant > > Franz > > The mention of the underground parking also rings bells ! > > Recent tests for the UK government suggest that the likelihood of fire > spread from vehicle to vehicle is much greater than previouslyb > thought and the fuel load of modern cars is rated at around 7Mw ! > > Stewart > > PS Currently installing a mist system in a 16th century former > Scottish royal palace - should be complete by July. If you want to > have a look let me know > > On 14 May 2009, at 13:12, George Church wrote: > >> Being a sprinkler guy, I don't know that many pharmaceuticals that >> aren't >> sprinklered since we only hang around ones that are! >> >> However, I can relay that back about 25 years ago we retrofit a >> 100,000 sf >> existing mfg building on a large pharmaceutical campus that had a >> 30,000 SF >> clean room area (DIPA) for a rather phenomenal amount of money. >> >> The largest hazard was the plastic containers, but the decision to >> sprinkler >> the building came after a small plant renovation project erupted >> into a >> fireball when some flammables deposited (inadvertently)as a coating >> caught >> from a welder. I don't recall there being fatalities, but certainly >> dirty >> underwear for anyone within a 100 feet of it. Management realized >> the risk >> to life in addition to the experienced (and what could have been >> much worse >> potentially) BI. Once they decided to do it, there was no pushback >> on cost, >> suggestions to omit AS in any areas, etc. believe me, retrofitting >> operating >> sterile mfg operation ain't cheap. 3 levels of gowning, so you lost >> almost >> an hour for a p. All material washed down with alcohol in an airlock, >> washdown the scissors, power machine, pretty much everything but the >> blueprints. Pull the tape measure out completely and swab it down as >> it >> retracts. >> >> In this same building a few years later, a change in the machinery >> had us >> installing a head with exposed piping, SS316, maybe 10' with a >> couple 90's, >> and our NTE price was $5k. Brought it in for $3500 and they were >> happy. >> >> So while this isn't exactly what you asked for, here's a drugmaker >> that >> originally elected to NOT sprinkler in I think the 1960's, had an >> OOPS that >> could have been a lot worse, and when they realized the exposure, >> they >> didn't hesitate to do all it took to bring it up to the level of >> safety that >> should have been in place originally- at a much lower price. >> >> The cleaning crew that followed our weekend shift in the sterile >> area missed >> a little bit and they had to dump the first shift following's >> production; I >> believe it was $250,000 of drugs down the drain. Expensive cleaning >> crew QC, >> eh? >> >> They're smart if they learn from the mistakes of others, and save >> some money >> and do it right the first time. >> >> George Church >> Rowe Sprinkler >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Frans >> Stoop >> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:27 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Reasons to not sprinkler a pharmaceutical plant >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> Here is a peculiar question: >> A pharmaceutical company is planning to build a new plant with >> laboratories for production and quality control, offices and an >> underground parking level. >> The top floor is for HVAC. >> The main process is waterbased, although, like any other laboratory, >> there small quantities of flammable liquids present. >> The flammable liquids will be stored in fire cabinets. >> We already convinced the company's management that sprinkler is the >> way to go for the obvious reasons: life safety, preservation of >> property, continuity of operations, etc. >> Maybe we advised them too good: >> Now the management wonders why not all pharmaceutical plants are >> sprinklered throughout. >> >> I'm composing a list of unsprinklered pharmaceutical facilities with >> the reason why the decision makers in concern have chosen not to >> sprinkler. >> Can you help me with examples of such sites, (parts of) plants or >> rooms and the reasoning? >> >> By the way, this question from our client is not as peculiar as it >> looks like at first sight. >> It is just a known method of decision making. >> It might lead to the decision to protect some rooms or parts of the >> building otherwise (with gas, pre-action sprinkler e.g.). >> >> Frans Stoop >> TOS architecture & fire protection >> Netherlands <[email protected]> >> Tel. +31-24-324 0112 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
