Thom,

I'm hip.  He suggested in rather unflattering terms that since his 
attachment method for the seismic bracing was using two fasteners he 
could double the load and make it work.  While I have some information 
that agrees with him, including a very nice structural engineer who 
answered my questions for free, I still don't have any data on the 
strength of a 4x12 to withstand that load horizontally.

It's been an interesting day, believe me.
PARSLEY CONSULTING
Ken Wagoner, SET
760.745.6181 voice
760.745.0537 fax
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail
www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website


Thom McMahon wrote:
> TALCO fig. 52,56 and 58 Side beam hangers are only listed for up to 4" 
> pipe.
> Fig. 51 is listed for 6 & 8", but you need to use the 1/2" lag bolt of
> appropriate length (3") per 9.1.5.3.1.
> The bigger problem is the seismic loads which make you use 9.3.5.9.1 
> to size
> thru bolts and lags, where the min for 6" is a 4-1/2" lag. (Into a 4" 
> beam?)
> Thru bolts only allow 485# on a single thru bolt 1/2".
>
> So besides the structural engineer approval, you'll need to check the
> anchors and fasteners.
>
> Thom McMahon, SET
> Firetech, Inc.
> 2560 Copper Ridge Dr
> P.O. Box 882136
> Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
> Tel: 970-879-7952
> Fax: 970-879-7926
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Parsley
> Consulting
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 8:16 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Structural concerns
>
> John,
>
> I'm looking at one of those now. A designer has sent me a set of plans for
> review and is just incensed that I would question the ability of a 
> side beam
> bracket in a 4x12 to properly support the weight of a 6" main.
> He was equally upset when I asked if he had information from the 
> structural
> engineer to endorse the same member accepting a horizontal force of almost
> 800 pounds in lateral seismic loading.
>
> He told me stuff about my mom that I never knew.
> PARSLEY CONSULTING
> Ken Wagoner, SET
> 760.745.6181 voice
> 760.745.0537 fax
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail
> www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website
>
>
>
>
> John Drucker wrote:
>> George,
>>
>> Some of us do. The 20006 IBC (Chapter 16 - 1602.1, 1606.2 1604.2) does
>> include provisions with regards to sprinkler piping loading. There
>> have been times when the loading of a structural member has been
>> questioned and where the structural engineer has responded by
>> "beefing" up the connection. If the fire inspector isn't picking it 
>> up the
> building inspector sure should be.
>>
>> John Drucker, CET
>> Fire Protection Subcode Official
>> Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector
>> Fire Marshals Office
>> Borough of Red Bank, NJ
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George
>> Church
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 5:03 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Trapeze hangers?
>>
>> I saw a WalMart renov in York where the 6" main was c-clamped to the
>> bottom "wave" of those bar joists that have Z purlin material instead
>> of angle iron as a bottom chord.
>>
>> I moved over a few feet so as not to be walking underneath it. How can
>> anyone look at that and not raise a question?
>>
>> glc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of J.
>> Scott Mitchell
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:22 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Trapeze hangers?
>>
>> I saw an aircraft hangar once that had 8" bulk mains hung from this
>> light weight construction. The sprinkler contractor and structural
>> engineer put their heads together before hand. The result was strut
>> channel trapezes spaced 8 ft apart and spanning four z-purlins.
>>
>> The real headache comes when there is no engineer and the GC buys a
>> pre-engineered building from a building company who says the warranty
>> is void if you hang anything from the purlins.
>>
>> J. Scott Mitchell, P.E.
>>
>> --- On Tue, 7/14/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>
>> It's very well possible. It all depends on the size and gauge of the
>> structural member. More and more installations are using
>> pre-engineered buildings which are typically of a light weight
>> construction and not really designed for much static loading from the
> steel.
>> Craig L. Prahl, CET
>> Fire Protection Specialist
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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