Garth,

Are you in a seismic zone? I've found high to be better when you have
a lot of bracing but I'd otherwise agree with your comments.

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Garth W. Warren<[email protected]> wrote:
> Everyone on here seems to be suggesting hanging high.  From a different
> perspective I always requested a 6" or 8" clear space directly above the
> space required by the electrician for light and their installation (usually
> 6 to 8").  Never had a problem with high hats - the chances of your pipe
> actually occupying the space is slim unless you install center of hall.
> Duct and plumbers were all above sprinkler pipe, and since my requirement
> for a gridded flat system were minimal, there was never a problem.  Nor did
> I have problems breaking around duct to get to the ceiling.  With the new
> flex head extensions this should be even more acceptable for all since you
> won't be running your lines in the same row as the diffusers.  If the
> project had different ceiling heights for large areas, piping would also
> break, for small areas not so much.  If all trades agree on taking a
> specific dimension above finished floor and stick to it there are few
> problems that arise.
> It may have been unorthodox to you guys but it always served me well.
>
> Regards,
> Garth
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fletcher, Ron" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:56 AM
> Subject: RE: Renegade HVAC Contractor
>
>
>> Here is a different approach. Most of the comments are what we would all
>> like to do in that situation but not very realistic. Picking fights with
>> other trades and GC's is nonproductive at best and may cost more in the
>> long run than just getting it done. Especially if you ever want to work
>> with the same construction team again.
>>
>> Next time with this GC you will know to install first and install high.
>> Deal with the duct work when cutting drops. High and tight will usually
>> eliminate most coordination problems.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> Ron Fletcher
>> Aero Automatic - Phoenix
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>> [email protected]
>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:35 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Renegade HVAC Contractor
>>
>> If he messes up your project, the Project Manager/ GC is at fault and
>> creating delay and posibly additional expenses for you to complete your
>> work.
>> Place a Change Order request with the GC or notice of claim asap for
>> additional field engineering and delay. You must assert this claim right
>> away. The GC will likely brush it off if it is a smaller project but
>> they'll know your serious when you lien the project. Documentation of
>> everything is extremely important.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Todd Williams <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:10 pm
>> Subject: RE: Renegade HVAC Contractor
>>
>>
>>
>> Make sure you set up a camera to get video of them taking it down
>>
>>
>>
>> At 02:02 PM 7/30/2009, you wrote:
>>>You could consider just throwing up a couple lengths of pipe alongside
>> the
>>>big openings on their trunk duct, amking sure you're the size of the
>> opening
>>>+ 6" away from it so you've accommodated the offsets they'd need to get
>>>around you. Start with the openings just outside the meeting room.
>>>
>>>A couple lengths under roof top openings should give them a clue that
>> you're
>>>serious. In one day you should be able to hang a couple lengths in
>> front of
>>>several of these, no outlets required, helps you make your point.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: [email protected]
>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>> Fletcher, Ron
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:21 PM
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Subject: RE: Renegade HVAC Contractor
>>>
>>>At least you are not spending money and time on BIM while all the other
>>>trades are doing installation. Remember the sprinkler creed "install
>>>high install first".
>>>
>>>Ron Fletcher
>>>Aero Automatic
>>>Phoenix
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: [email protected]
>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian
>>>Harris
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:02 AM
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Subject: Renegade HVAC Contractor
>>>
>>>I could use a little ammo for an upcoming coordination meeting I have
>> on
>>>Monday. We are working on a pretty big school and the HVAC sub (per the
>>>spec) is suppose to be spearheading a set of coordination drawings that
>>>all subs need to agree on and then sigh off on before "any work can be
>>>fabricated or installed". These drawings still have not been completed
>>>and are actually not even close to being done.
>>>
>>>Here's where it gets good:
>>>
>>>*       He has already begun installing his duct and has actually
>>>completed
>>>a couple wings. (without the approved coordination drawings)
>>>*       He wants to run all his ductwork 8" above ceiling throughout
>> and
>>>says sprinkler
>> pipe needs to run above him, "that's industry standard"
>>>!!
>>>*       He says he's never heard of ductwork being run through the
>>>joist,
>>>it's always the sprinkler lines that run up high. (this is in areas
>> with
>>>ceiling tiles)
>>>
>>>I could go on and on but I think you get the point, what I would love
>> to
>>>have is some hard facts/references that I can provide at the meeting so
>>>this doesn't turn into a bigger pissing contest than it already has. I
>>>don't dare release our pipe for fab without the drawings being signed
>>>off but in the mean time he is installing away!
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>                                  <http://www.firstdefensefire.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> Todd G. Williams, PE
>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>> Stonington, Connecticut
>> www.fpdc.com
>> 860.535.2080
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-- 
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering
Bates Technical College
Tacoma, WA

Member:
SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA
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