Crappy water = relatively poor pressure for fire sprinkler system calcs. If you typically have 80 psi in your city, but one area has only 50 psi, then that area has crappy water. Or, you have City A with 100 psi throughout and City B 20 miles away with only 50 psi throughout, City B has "crappy water" relative to City A.
George's point, I believe, is that often times if you use galvanized pipe, you can get similar pipe sizing as you would in a wet system. However with black pipe, you often have larger pipe sizes due to increased friction loss resulting from the lower C value. So, pay me now, or pay me later. The smaller sizing due to galvanized pipe may allow you to have a system that stays under 750 gallon capacity, whereas the larger piping associated with black pipe systems may push you over the 750 gallon limit, causing 2 systems if you can't make trip times. I think each project would be case by case, but galvanized pipe for dry systems can be very beneficial in the right cases as it relates to pipe sizing and volumes. Travis > I don't see it 'cos I don't know it. What exactly do you see? Can you > describe? > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd > Williams > Sent: September 9, 2009 7:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Galvanized Pipe > > Crappy water.... you know it when you see it. And I just found some. > > > At 08:48 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: >>Tony, >> >>As is so often the case on the Forum, crappy water is a technical term. >>In this case though it has different meanings depending on the >>industry. For instance crappy water to the water connoisseur means a >>water with poor taste, whereas to the water purveyor it means any water >>on a system beyond an arbitrary point that he might be called on the >>carpet for if he allows it back into his system. To him both light >>water and heavy water is crappy water. You can guess what it means to a >>plumber. In typical sprinkler guy (another technical term) talk crappy >>water on the West Coast means water supplied with low quality relative >>to pressure and/or flow. I haven't a clue what it means to George. >> >>On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM, A.P.Silva<[email protected]> wrote: >> > Not sure if I understand. >> > >> > Dry system, black pipe C=100, galvanized pipe C=120 >> > >> > C=120 is less friction loss. Are you trying to say, "crappy water >> > c=100 instead of c=120...." ? >> > >> > Next question, what is "crappy water"? >> > >> > Tony >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> George Church >> > Sent: September 9, 2009 10:05 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: RE: Galvanized Pipe >> > >> > Reqmnts for calcs are independent of the type of pipe. >> > If you have crappy water, galv gives you c=120 instead of c=100- so >> > do you want 25% increase in pipe fro line size increase, or 25% >> > increase to stay size and install galv? >> > >> > XL is galv outside, not internally galvanized. >> > It is an assurance that service work will continue into the next >> generation. >> > >> > glc >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio >> N. >> > Alvarado >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:53 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: RE: Galvanized Pipe >> > >> > Then, There is no mandate to use galvanized pipe on "Dry" or >> > pre-action systems. Pre-action systems are considered "Dry". Only >> > when galvanized pipe is used there are requirements for >> > calculations, etc. I'm so much smarter than I was just and hour or so > ago. >> > >> > Thank you all, very much. >> > >> > Eladio Alvarado >> > AFSDII >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Chris >> > Cahill >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:41 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: RE: Galvanized Pipe >> > >> > Practically speaking there is nothing galvanized about XL. If any >> > entity, FM, NFPA, PE, owner, large drop heads required galvanized >> > pipe XL wouldn't qualify. >> > >> > Chris Cahill, P.E. >> > Fire Protection Engineer >> > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >> > >> > 763-658-4483 >> > 763-658-4921 fax >> > >> > Email: [email protected] >> > >> > Mail: P.O. Box 69 >> > Waverly, MN 55390 >> > >> > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >> > Waverly, MN 55390 >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio >> N. >> > Alvarado >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:26 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: RE: Galvanized Pipe >> > >> > Todd, I do recall that FM at one point required it, but I though >> that it had >> > been incorporated to NFPA in subsequent revisions? Wasn't that the >> > reason for the thread able light wall pipe "XL"? If you would, please > elaborate. >> > >> > >> > Eladio Alvarado >> > AFSDII >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Todd >> > Williams >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:15 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: Galvanized Pipe >> > >> > It's not required by any specific standard, but is required by >> > several insurance companies >> > >> > >> > At 09:04 AM 9/9/2009, you wrote: >> >>Would someone be good enough to direct me to the specific location >> >>where Galvanized pipe is required by 13 for Dry systems? And where >> >>it may be indicated that Pre-action systems are considered "Dry". >> >>I've been trying to find it on the On-line codes but I seem to be >> >>having trouble dealing with their search engine. Any help would be >> >>greatly >> > appreciated. >> >> >> >> >> >>Eladio Alvarado >> >>AFSDII >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>[email protected] >> >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> >>[email protected] >> >> >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >>to:[email protected] >> >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > Todd G. Williams, PE >> > Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> > Stonington, Connecticut >> > www.fpdc.com >> > 860.535.2080 >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> >> >> >>-- >>Ron Greenman >>Instructor >>Fire Protection Engineering >>Bates Technical College >>Tacoma, WA >> >>Member: >>SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >>to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
