This really does sound like a high value operation where a knowledgeable PE should work with the AHJ (be it local, insurance co, risk mgmt department, etc.) to determine the best options. Dumping water into an autoclave over 212 degrees could be VERY bad. In some cases, no sprinklers or fire protection equipment is the best option.
If the amount of combustible adhesive is just a few ounces per part then there may not be a combustion hazard. On the other hand, if it contains a solvent or releases a gas that can get above 25% of the LEL, that is another problem. Michael M. Fitz, P.E., C.F.I. MDE Inc. 700 S. Industrial Way Seattle, WA 98108 www.MDE.com 206-321-1804 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: walk in Ovens This definitely needs someone with experience. Autoclaves are pressure vessels as well as heating devices. I would be very reluctant to require a sprinkler inside. The others will probably need some protection with ultra high temp heads. Is there an insurance company involved? I know FM has some stuff on this. BTW, how is the "friendly recommendation role" play out in liability-land? At 12:02 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote: >I agree but as usual our hands are somewhat tied to a friendly >recommendation role. >One oven is a box about the size of a paint booth for cars that bakes >aluminum to aluminum with a thin film of adhesive between them at 350 >degrees. > >2nd one is a 2 head room that does the same. > >3rd one is an autoclave - vessel that the owner adamantly refuse to put >sprinklers in. The other two are up for debate and we are just >beginning this process, so thanks for the input. > >Greg McGahan >Operations Manager > >Living Water Fire Protection >1160 McKenzie Road >P.O. Box 877 >Cantonment, Florida 32533 >(850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >[email protected] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >[email protected] >Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:57 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: walk in Ovens > >There's a lot more info needed to make a final determination. > >Of the aluminum plants I've done, the ovens and presses were protected >by local application, low pressure, CO2 systems with both automatic and >manual activation. Fires in rolling mills were not uncommon due to the >coolants used and the process. > >The "Pe" needs to do some homework and justify his position or hire >someone who knows something about these kinds of hazards. > >Craig L. Prahl, CET >Fire Protection Specialist >Mechanical Department >CH2MHILL >Lockwood Greene >1500 International Drive >PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - >864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan >Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:49 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: walk in Ovens > >The product is aluminum. > >Greg McGahan >Operations Manager > >Living Water Fire Protection >1160 McKenzie Road >P.O. Box 877 >Cantonment, Florida 32533 >(850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >[email protected] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Fitz >Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:47 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: walk in Ovens > >Try NFPA 86, section on Fire Protection. Occupancy is not a >consideration but if the product will burn and extend outside the furnace. > >Michael > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >Thomas Reinhardt >Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:27 AM >To: '[email protected]' >Subject: RE: walk in Ovens > >Occupancy should not be a factor. > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan >Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:21 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: walk in Ovens > >What about industrial ovens? The Engineer is saying that is they are >not occupied then he doesn't think sprinklers are warranted. > >Greg McGahan >Operations Manager > >Living Water Fire Protection >1160 McKenzie Road >P.O. Box 877 >Cantonment, Florida 32533 >(850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >[email protected] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church >Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:09 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Walk in humidifier for bread company > >Sounds like you've nailed it- the parallel to a walk-in box is >valid, and protection is required regardless of temperature. > >glc > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >Thomas Reinhardt >Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:55 AM >To: '[email protected]' >Subject: Walk in humidifier for bread company > >Question for the forum. Found a business with a walk in humidifier. >No different than a walk in cooler or freezer. If I follow NFPA 13, >all areas to be sprinklered and the 4ft.rule.Ibelieve this must be >sprinklered.Any suggestions. 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If you have >received this message in error, please forward it to the sender and >delete it completely from your computer system. >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4445 (20090921) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4445 (20090921) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. 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