If the Owner hires an idiot, he pays for that mistake- just as if I hire an idiot or bank robber, I pay for it.
Naturally, those of us who "get it" will point out to a PE when he crosses into the ludicrous- maybe even enjoying it. I was directed to test a DI Preaction system with 200 PSI air in lieu of water, and of course did not. If you have the opportunity to talk directly with the Owner, you can shortcut a great deal of frustrating time with an unwashed PE. We offered an Owner $267,000 back if he'd ignore the PE's bells and whistles, and we didn't need to have any further discussion with the PE; hired our own FPE and were on the owner's good side for a 2-year project- versus dealing with the old EOR and listening to him observe "Well, that's not how WE would have done it" for 2 years. That the original PE is one of the type that require a different degraded C-factor for everything was just icing on the cake. We also propose cost-saving alternatives whenever possible since some canned specs require seamless pipe and concealed heads, and if the project is a Salvation Army thrift Store, the Owner (if asked) probably doesn't want, need or can afford the higher standard of care in the canned spec. There's nothing wrong with a higher level of protection, better materials- so long as the Owner is aware of how others are spending his money. I've asked "do you want us to do it like that cause it takes longer, costs more, or won't last as long?" so we can understand their decision tree. glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Law, Kevin W Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: walk in Ovens OUCH! That hit a little close to home. I understand that change orders are the way to make bank in the subcontract world, but must we be so hostile to each other. I don't pretend to know everything (there is simply too much for anyone to know it all) and am willing to learn from any reliable source. But if the PE is a "burro" about things I can see letting them have all the rope they want to hang themselves. But do you really want to do that to the owner, it is not his fault. Kevin Law, PE Bechtel National, Inc. Waste Treatment Project Fire Protection Engineering Work (509) 371-3280 Cell (509) 531-5715 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: walk in Ovens Let the PE put it in writing, draw it like he says, if the AHJ has a problem with it, you get an extra to change it. (I am but a humble Layout technician who works at the direction of the PE, so says the SFPE white paper. I am not qualified to question the PE on "Design" application.) Like everything else, the owner will end up paying for any mistakes the PE makes. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 Greg McGahan What about industrial ovens? The Engineer is saying that is they are not occupied then he doesn't think sprinklers are warranted. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
