Look on page 11 of 28 of TFP610. The insulation is required (even if with Tyco Attic sprinklers above) as part of the "listed installation concept" for the pipe to be protected. As it states right on the detail... "Non-Combustible insulation for fire protection of CPVC pipe, not freeze protection". And be careful thinking that blown in insulation will cut it, the activation of the attic heads will blow that off the pipe and your "listed installation concept" is gone, inspectors are being trained to catch this - which is a good thing. Batt type strips secured down with chicken wire or stapled down are the most common ways I've seen of doing this.
You've really just got to address what your exact situation is and look through pages 12 through to 28 of the Tyco TFP610 data sheet and they pretty much spell right out what you're permitted to use and where. I did have a situation that didn't fall within their somewhat generic parameters. After contacting their tech support guys, explaining the situation, exchanging data about the buildings involved, they issued a formal interpretation to their listing to the requirement we had and we had the green light (in writing, from the manufacturer) that our installation concept was in accordance with their listing and NFPA. To be honest, it boils down to 1 thing - if you use CPVC pipe you need to protect it in accordance with the listing, NFPA referenced data, and any applicable AHJ amendments. If not, you're stuck with steel and forget about it. MPG -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geoff Dyce Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 7:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: attics Roland and James. That is it in a nutshell. Two very good answers and two contradictions. Is there a correct answer? I agree that if there is exposed plastic in the attic, the Tyco heads are what you need. From what I have seen and read, the Tyco attic heads protect the exposed plastic supplying the attic sprinklers. I did not see anything regarding insulation but if the insulation is fire protection for the plastic pipe as Jim says, why would I have to use the Tyco heads on black pipe supplying the attic sprinklers if I have no plastic to protect? Roland....are you going to be in St Pete this coming week at the seminars? If you are, lets talk about this. Were talking real dollars but we do not want to compromise safety either. Geoff -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of James J. Toth, SET Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: attics That depends if your installation needs to meet the requirements of NFPA 13, NFPA 13R, or NFPA 13D. NFPA 13 is the most stringent and requires full attic protection and the CPVC piping must be protected. I believe you must use the special application sprinklers and insulate the pipe in order to meet the listing requirements. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: attics True but I was referring to the question about using spray sprinklers in the attic and whether CPVC can run below the insulation to supply the floor below. Roland On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:48 PM, James J. Toth, SET wrote: > Where Tyco attic sprinklers are installed in accordance with their > listing > (TYCO document TFP610) the attic piping must be covered with at > least 6" of > noncombustible batted insulation at least 24" wide in order to meet > the > listing. This insulation is not freeze protection. It is fire > protection for > the plastic piping. > > Jim Toth > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland > Huggins > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:24 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: attics > > Insulation is not adequate to consider the CPVC pipe as being in a > separate compartment from the attic. > > Roland > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 7:12 AM, Geoff Dyce wrote: > >> Plastic supplying upper floor sprinklers may be run in attics. >> There is an >> attic sprinkler system also. If we supply the attic sprinklers from >> the wet >> system covering the third floor, it appears we must use special >> application >> sprinklers and these will protect the plastic pipe in the attic. >> However we >> have a freezing possibility in the attic and will have to run a dry >> system. >> Assuming the plastic is insulated with lay in insulation, can we use >> standard sprinklers in the attic sprinkler system or will we have to >> use the >> special application sprinklers anyway. The issue is of course >> cost! Thanks >> in advance. >> >> >> >> Geoffrey H. Dyce >> >> Operations Manager/NICET IV >> >> DELTA Fire Sprinklers, Inc. >> >> A Veteran Owned Small Business >> >> Ph: 407-328-3000 ext 143 >> >> Fx: 407-575-9991 >> >> E-Mail: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
