It certainly does- it gives us the reference pointing out where the structural engineer of record didn't follow the requirements of the IBC when designing the steel- if and when we encounter that problem.
It's a perfect qualification to when the AE team attempts to place the onus on us for structural sufficiency. Simply qualify your bid that you're assuming the structural EOR met 1606.2 as REQUIRED by the IBC. Then you have the onus of giving dead loads and point loading at hanger points and let them complete their compliance with 1606.2 when actual values are available. Thanks again, John- glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hangers 2006 IBC CHAPTER 16 STRUCTURAL DESIGN 1602.1 Definitions. The following words and terms shall, for the purposes of this chapter, have the meanings shown herein. DEAD LOADS. The weight of materials of construction incorporated into the building, including but not limited to walls, floors, roofs, ceilings, stairways, built-in partitions, finishes, cladding and other similarly incorporated architectural and structural items, and the weight of fixed service equipment, such as cranes, plumbing stacks and risers, electrical feeders, heating, ventilating and air-conditioning systems AND FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS. 1606.2 Design dead load. For purposes of design, THE ACTUAL WEIGHTS OF MATERIALS OF CONSTRUCTION AND FIXED SERVICE EQUIPMENT SHALL BE USED. In the absence of definite information, values used shall be subject to the approval of the building official. Hope that helps, John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector New Jersey -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hangers Sounds like the "Toys R Us" roof collapse fiasco to a T. If structural engineers allow the owner and architect to buffalo them into designing a structure with NO allowance for or less than "Industry Standard" allowance for that type of structure for the weight of mechanical systems, wind or snow/rain loads. They need to get it in writing or walk. Cause when the roof falls down, everyone is going to turn to them. My suggestion, if you receive a spec. that requires the fire sprinkler contractor to verify the ability of the structure to support the fire sprinkler system. That your request a detailed point load of every other system including electrical and alarm systems, every seismic load calc, attachment location, allowable safety factor, maximum allowable deflection and applied deflection for applied loads and incidental loads such as wind, snow or rain. Basically make them S*#T paper until you have so much data, all you can say is "No, in our professional opinion as a fire protection contractor, we don't believe that this structure will support the additional loads of the fire sprinkler system, please have the structural engineer verify that our loads will make this structure unsafe." Give the structural engineer your drawings and let him do his job. I know this does not win many friends, but any Arch. That writes this crap is no-ones friend. Not yours, Not the owners, and not the structural engineers. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hangers Maybe in the perfect world but in reality it won't happen that way. I've seen too many value engineered projects where one of the first things to go is the bldg. structure. Usually from an engineered bldg to a pre-engineered spaghetti noodle design that will barely hold itself up and sure isn't taking into consideration all the utility loading. And forget about EQ bracing, that would cause someone to have a stroke. Fortunately none of these super-econo model designs required bracing. In today's economy everything is up for grabs, nothing is exempt. Craig L. Prahl, CET _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
