Ok, I have a question, I'm still waking up with morning coffee, but was the installation installed to manufacturers specifications in this building? I know with Blazemaster they have very specific criteria for exposed installations. They even have exposed riser applications and their paragraphs stipulates even when sprinklers are not required (like when an AHJ thinks it is a good idea).
Todd Letterman Fire Protection Engineer Riverside County Fire Department (951) 955-5273-Fax(951) 955-4886 [email protected] "Life's not about waiting for the storms to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain." -----Original Message----- From: å... .... [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Drop Wood Ceiling [email protected]> Tony: You have my interest on the performance of the exposed cpcv piping. with what you know about this fire, and it seems you know quite a bit, with all respect, then was the exposed cpcv at fault in this fire? you mentioned the pump failed. if the pump did not fail, what do you think would have been the performance of the cpcv? did the roof have a non-combustible membrane separating it from the area below the roof, or was it a simple wood construction roof (somewhat odd for CA construction from my experiences). I will ask on-line and on-forum, if you feel it better for all to learn together. I do. but I want to ask your permission of what you would rather. scot deal excelsior fire On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:40, A.P.Silva <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree. It is the standard that determines what is needed, not the AHJ. If > the intent of the standard is clear, a ruling by the AHJ different from the > standard will not get you off the hook. > > Sometime back an AHJ issued a bullettin permitting the installation of > exposed cpvc, contrary to the requirements of the building code that were > applicable during that time. Many buildings in that locality were installed > with exposed cpvc. Everything was fine, till a school with exposed cpvc had > a fire. To cut a long story short, the fire started at the roof, the pump > stopped working, and the entire school burned down. However, the "expert" > hired by the owner claimed the system failed due to the burning of the > exposed cpvc pipe. In addition to the AHJ bullettin, the engineer for the > project issued an addendum permitting the use of exposed cpvc. This > engineer > also provided inspections (for which I was not hired). > > When the lawyer for the owner asked me why I (working for the sprinkler > contractor) designed for cpvc, I showed the addendum, and was told I was > the > expert and have a responsibility to advise the engineer. When I showed the > bullettin, I was asked whether I did not know that the AHJ was not an > engineer. > > Interestingly, since then that bullettin has been rescinded. Also, cpvc > (exposed or protected) is now totally prohibited for schools in that > jurisdiction. > > The moral of the story is comply with the standard. > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richardson, > R > Sent: December 15, 2009 3:01 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Drop Wood Ceiling > > I would suggest that in this case you do not check with the AHJ. NFPA 13 > clearly requires sprinklers in the space, unless the wood is FR. > Personally, I get annoyed with a phone call whose goal is to simply confirm > what NFPA clearly states. There are plenty of off-beat situations not > clearly addressed by NFPA where a phone inquiry is required, this is not > one > of them. > > Rich Richardson > Seattle Fire Department > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of njarendt > tds.net > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 13:44 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Drop Wood Ceiling > > Check with the authority having jurisdiction. They are the ones that > ultimately will determine what is needed. Contact up front with the AHJ > usually saves a lot in the long run. I do plan review for 2 fire districts > and time and energy can be saved by this up front discussion on issues like > this. > > Norm > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Jimmy Waite > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Gentlemen, > > > > > > > > We have a situation where an engineer in requiring sprinkler > > protection above a drop wood ceiling. The building is light hazard > > and noncombustible, and we have obviously provided protection below > > the ceiling. I can't place a code reference in defense of either > > side. It would seem that we have adequately protected the wood > > ceiling by protecting the floor space below it. On the other hand, > > the back of the wood ceiling would mean there are combustibles in a > > concealed space. What is everyone's opinion? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Jimmy Waite > > > > Design Engineer > > > > > > Piedmont Fire Protection Systems, LLC > > > > 3609 Bastion Lane > > > > Raleigh, NC 27604 > > > > > > o: 919.212.2356 > > > > f: 919.212.2357 > > > > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > > > > web: <http://www.piedmontfire.com/> www.piedmontfire.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > <to%3ASprinklerforum-reques > > [email protected]> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
