Hello A.P.Silva, I'm Interested
Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 1:48:53 PM, you wrote: > Scot, > If there are others interested, I'll give more details on the forum. > Otherwise, I'll reply directly to your e-mail. > Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of å... .... > Sent: December 16, 2009 12:57 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Drop Wood Ceiling > Tony: > You have my interest on the performance of the exposed cpcv piping. > with what you know about this fire, and it seems you know quite a bit, with > all respect, then was the exposed cpcv at fault in this fire? > you mentioned the pump failed. if the pump did not fail, what do you think > would have been the performance of the cpcv? > did the roof have a non-combustible membrane separating it from the area > below the roof, or was it a simple wood construction roof (somewhat odd for > CA construction from my experiences). > I will ask on-line and on-forum, if you feel it better for all to learn > together. > I do. but I want to ask your permission of what you would rather. > scot deal > excelsior fire > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:40, A.P.Silva <[email protected]> wrote: >> I agree. It is the standard that determines what is needed, not the >> AHJ. If the intent of the standard is clear, a ruling by the AHJ >> different from the standard will not get you off the hook. >> Sometime back an AHJ issued a bullettin permitting the installation of >> exposed cpvc, contrary to the requirements of the building code that >> were applicable during that time. Many buildings in that locality were >> installed with exposed cpvc. Everything was fine, till a school with >> exposed cpvc had a fire. To cut a long story short, the fire started >> at the roof, the pump stopped working, and the entire school burned down. > However, the "expert" >> hired by the owner claimed the system failed due to the burning of the >> exposed cpvc pipe. In addition to the AHJ bullettin, the engineer for >> the project issued an addendum permitting the use of exposed cpvc. >> This engineer also provided inspections (for which I was not hired). >> When the lawyer for the owner asked me why I (working for the >> sprinkler >> contractor) designed for cpvc, I showed the addendum, and was told I >> was the expert and have a responsibility to advise the engineer. When >> I showed the bullettin, I was asked whether I did not know that the >> AHJ was not an engineer. >> Interestingly, since then that bullettin has been rescinded. Also, >> cpvc (exposed or protected) is now totally prohibited for schools in >> that jurisdiction. >> The moral of the story is comply with the standard. >> Tony >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Richardson, R >> Sent: December 15, 2009 3:01 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Drop Wood Ceiling >> I would suggest that in this case you do not check with the AHJ. NFPA >> 13 clearly requires sprinklers in the space, unless the wood is FR. >> Personally, I get annoyed with a phone call whose goal is to simply >> confirm what NFPA clearly states. There are plenty of off-beat >> situations not clearly addressed by NFPA where a phone inquiry is >> required, this is not one of them. >> Rich Richardson >> Seattle Fire Department >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> njarendt tds.net >> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 13:44 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Drop Wood Ceiling >> Check with the authority having jurisdiction. They are the ones that >> ultimately will determine what is needed. Contact up front with the >> AHJ usually saves a lot in the long run. I do plan review for 2 fire >> districts and time and energy can be saved by this up front discussion >> on issues like this. >> Norm >> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Jimmy Waite >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> > Gentlemen, >> > >> > >> > >> > We have a situation where an engineer in requiring sprinkler >> > protection above a drop wood ceiling. The building is light hazard >> > and noncombustible, and we have obviously provided protection below >> > the ceiling. I can't place a code reference in defense of either >> > side. It would seem that we have adequately protected the wood >> > ceiling by protecting the floor space below it. On the other hand, >> > the back of the wood ceiling would mean there are combustibles in a >> > concealed space. What is everyone's opinion? >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > >> > >> > Jimmy Waite >> > >> > Design Engineer >> > >> > >> > Piedmont Fire Protection Systems, LLC >> > >> > 3609 Bastion Lane >> > >> > Raleigh, NC 27604 >> > >> > >> > o: 919.212.2356 >> > >> > f: 919.212.2357 >> > >> > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >> > >> > web: <http://www.piedmontfire.com/> www.piedmontfire.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected]<to%3ASprinklerforum-requ >> > [email protected]> >> <to%3ASprinklerforum-reques >> > [email protected]> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected]<to%3ASprinklerforum-reques >> [email protected]> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected]<to%3ASprinklerforum-reques >> [email protected]> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected]<to%3ASprinklerforum-reques >> [email protected]> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) -- Best regards, Charles Thurston mailto:[email protected] Coastal Fire Protection/ Myrtle Beach Fire & Safety Co. 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