Around here it's more to do with the fact that they are national chains, they build and own their own stores. Most retail space doesn't have clearance for lifts, and cost of tearing up floors to install lifts or reinforce slabs for heavy vehicles is cost prohibitive.
Did a Sam's Club a few years back and yes the systems in the tire area and retail space were of course different. Anyway, we digress, back to bee-hive hair-dos and toxic fumes from perms............................ Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Occupancy Perhaps they're stand alone due to occupancy/zoning rules. Look at the occupancy separation and the sprinklers between the main part of a Costco and the place where they put your tires on. On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 6:26 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Certainly if someone is putting in a tire store it's game over, reset and > start again. You'll obviously be putting in new piping, riser, valve and such > so kind of an apples to oranges comparison in regards to the salon. Around > here I've never seen a tire store stuck in a strip shopping center, they are > always stand alone buildings due to height and storage requirements. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - > 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob > Caputo > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 5:43 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Occupancy > > Craig, > > I didn't interpret the original post as describing a strip center however > while I agree with you in general (mostly that hair salons should be at least > an H-3 based as much on the smells as the heat release rate of patrons I've > witnessed exiting said establishments here in SoCal) but I've also seen some > pretty big tire stores in strip centers, so I'm not so sure the broad brush > of an M occupancy is appropriate in that case. > > bc > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:05 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Occupancy > > If this is a strip shopping center it's in the owner's best interest to treat > the entire shell as Mercantile and be done with it. That way any retail or > service type business can occupy the space. If you try to dissect the > categories of the occupants as to whether they may actually be a "B" or "M" > occupancy it will only create problems down the road when the "B"/LH beauty > shop moves out and the "M"/OH Granny's Knick-Knacks and Haberdashery goes > into the space. > > And yes, this is a Building Code issue, not an NFPA 13 issue. The NFPA part > is secondary to the BC issue. > > But if the system is existing, leave it alone. > > > But personally, shouldn't most beauty salons be considered an "H" > occupancy and protected with foam-water deluge systems, I mean look at > the chemical list, the smells make me think there are some serious > toxics involved.............. ;) > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - > 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob > Caputo > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:44 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Occupancy > > In my opinion, the question isn't directly an NFPA 13 issue but rather > Building and Fire Code issues in terms of occupancy and allowable amounts of > chemical or hazardous materials within a control area. Normally, the code > exempts (to a degree) mercantile occupancies where products containing > flammables, combustibles or hazardous materials (irritants, toxics, > carcinogens, etc) are stored in the same containers they are sold in. > That's why Costco, Sams, BJ's and similar can store more vegetable oils in > quantity than a manufacturing or storage use building could have in storage > of a product with the same flash point. > > That said, at some point in the process of analysis someone has to > decide what the corresponding NFPA 13 occupancy use group or commodity > and storage arrangement is, so sprinkler design criteria can be > established... I suggest this is a job for a consultant or an > engineer of record - not the contractor. (again - just stating my > opinion) > > > Bob Caputo, CFPS, CET > 657 Cantara Lane - Vista, CA 92081 > > Fire & Life Safety America Company > 3017 Vernon Rd - Richmond, VA 23228 > Office: (804) 222-1381 Cell: (804) 263-1577 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith > Pepin > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:23 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Occupancy > > I am working on a project that doesn't have an Eng of Record. The building > contains large individual shell spaces. The original sprinkler system was > designed for a mercantile occupancy. A tenant has purchased a couple of > spaces and is opening a beauty/hair salon. I don't see the fuel load as a > normal mercantile occupancy would have. Light or ord. Please comment. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
