Ron,
Don't tell him that, the guy doing the seismic seminar in Providence is
a real jerk.
One of the biggest problems I've had in dealing with seismic protection
of sprinkler systems is that we frequently run into a structural
engineer who decides to reinvent the entire process. Two examples fit
the bill.
First, there's an agency of the state government here in California that
Steve Leyton and I have been in a long siege with for years, called the
DSA. A sprinkler contractor client of mine received a plan review
comment from one of their structural engineers which required them to
recalculate their longitudinal braces to include the weight of the
branch line piping in the zone of influence. No warning, no information
prior to this requirement, just out of the blue - bingo. You can well
imagine the load that resulted from 80' of 6" main, and all the branch
lines fed from that main. It resulted in a shouting match, and while I
can't really say that I "won", I did manage to get the structural to
agree that there would have been no way that the contractor could have
anticipated such a requirement, and that any extra was legit, since it
was over an above NFPA-13 criteria. Eventually, my client kicked and
screamed his way to the agency HQ up in Sacramento, and had the decision
reversed to coincide with -13.
Second, that same state agency provided a review comment to a contractor
client informing them that they must design their seismic protection per
the 1999 UBC, the 2001 CBC, the 2005 ASCE7, the 2007 CBC, and the 1999,
2002 and 2007 editions of NFPA-13, and that they must have the whole
process signed and stamped by a registered structural engineer.
Alphabet soup aside, the individual making those comments was unmoved
when it was pointed out that conformance with the later editions of
those documents was all that was mandated by state law, but insisted
that any resubmittal provide code reference sections from all of the
above documents to support the calculations and brace/restraint
locations. A daunting task to be sure. No information on why my
clients had to document conformance to codes and standards that are not
applicable for new construction in California, just "do it."
Needless to say, my blood pressure meds are coming in handy in dealing
with such items.
--
PARSLEY CONSULTING
Ken Wagoner, SET
760.745.6181 voice
760.745.0537 fax
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail
www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website
Ron Greenman wrote:
There's a company by the same name in Bothell, WA. That's why I was
curious. Have you signed up for Ken's webinair? If not I recommend you
do. If too late make sure you get to RHode Is;land and the AFSA
convention in October and sit in on any hanging/bracing/seismic
courses offered there. This cam be confusing stuff but there's some
simple definitions and ways to think about the differences that make
it a bit less confusing. I do feel the pain of you guys on the other
side of the Mississippi that haven't had to deal with this stuff in
this way before. You might also want to look at an introductory
architectural or structural engineering text where they talk about the
basics of the physical forces that apply to buildings. Once you get a
good feel for tension, compression, shear, rotation, etc. the why of
this stuff starts making better sense.
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Brian Harris
<[email protected]> wrote:
Ron-
We are actually in NC...
Regards,
Brian Harris
FDFP INC.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Seismic Question
Brian,
Do I find your company in Bothell, WA?
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]>
wrote:
Is there any difference then between a Branch Line Restraint and an
End-Of Line restraint?
Regards,
Brian Harris
FDFP INC.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:31 AM
To: AFSA
Subject: Re: Seismic Question
Not entirely as Matthew said. It satisfies those applications where
the standard prescribes that the hanger shall be of a type that
resists upward movement only. Restraint (as described in 13) is a
lesser form of lateral bracing and is to be installed at the specified
intervals and ends of lines.
And within 2' of a hanger that resists upward movement if I recall
correctly (don't have 13 with me - riding shotgun with my 15-year old
daughter at the moment).
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian Harris" <[email protected]>
Sender: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:47:29
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>Subject: Seismic Question
Is a Surge Restraint (tolco #25) considered and End-Of-Line restraint
per
9.3.6.3 (2007) ?
Thanks!
Brian Harris
Design Engineer
First Defense Fire Protection
11957 Ramah Church Road
Huntersville NC 28078
[email protected]
www.firstdefensefire.com <outbind://80/www.firstdefensefire.com>
Ph: 704.948.3506
Fax: 704.948.3507
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA
253.680.7346
Member:
AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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