Same agency just informed an architect client that his SEOR will have to sign the fire sprinkler plans. Not just the details of connection or EQB calc's, but ALL the FP sheets. Needless to say, we don't have meds for this type of thing that have been approved by the FDA yet, so the SEOR politely told the SE at the agency that he could take his engineering seal and do a proctological exam with it. Still waiting on the outcome of my own traverse up the food chain to Sacramento on this one ...
SML -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ParsleyConsulting Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 9:18 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Seismic Question Ron, Don't tell him that, the guy doing the seismic seminar in Providence is a real jerk. One of the biggest problems I've had in dealing with seismic protection of sprinkler systems is that we frequently run into a structural engineer who decides to reinvent the entire process. Two examples fit the bill. First, there's an agency of the state government here in California that Steve Leyton and I have been in a long siege with for years, called the DSA. A sprinkler contractor client of mine received a plan review comment from one of their structural engineers which required them to recalculate their longitudinal braces to include the weight of the branch line piping in the zone of influence. No warning, no information prior to this requirement, just out of the blue - bingo. You can well imagine the load that resulted from 80' of 6" main, and all the branch lines fed from that main. It resulted in a shouting match, and while I can't really say that I "won", I did manage to get the structural to agree that there would have been no way that the contractor could have anticipated such a requirement, and that any extra was legit, since it was over an above NFPA-13 criteria. Eventually, my client kicked and screamed his way to the agency HQ up in Sacramento, and had the decision reversed to coincide with -13. Second, that same state agency provided a review comment to a contractor client informing them that they must design their seismic protection per the 1999 UBC, the 2001 CBC, the 2005 ASCE7, the 2007 CBC, and the 1999, 2002 and 2007 editions of NFPA-13, and that they must have the whole process signed and stamped by a registered structural engineer. Alphabet soup aside, the individual making those comments was unmoved when it was pointed out that conformance with the later editions of those documents was all that was mandated by state law, but insisted that any resubmittal provide code reference sections from all of the above documents to support the calculations and brace/restraint locations. A daunting task to be sure. No information on why my clients had to document conformance to codes and standards that are not applicable for new construction in California, just "do it." Needless to say, my blood pressure meds are coming in handy in dealing with such items. -- PARSLEY CONSULTING Ken Wagoner, SET 760.745.6181 voice 760.745.0537 fax [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website Ron Greenman wrote: > There's a company by the same name in Bothell, WA. That's why I was > curious. Have you signed up for Ken's webinair? If not I recommend you > do. If too late make sure you get to RHode Is;land and the AFSA > convention in October and sit in on any hanging/bracing/seismic > courses offered there. This cam be confusing stuff but there's some > simple definitions and ways to think about the differences that make > it a bit less confusing. I do feel the pain of you guys on the other > side of the Mississippi that haven't had to deal with this stuff in > this way before. You might also want to look at an introductory > architectural or structural engineering text where they talk about the > basics of the physical forces that apply to buildings. Once you get a > good feel for tension, compression, shear, rotation, etc. the why of > this stuff starts making better sense. > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Brian Harris > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ron- >> We are actually in NC... >> >> >> Regards, >> Brian Harris >> FDFP INC. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman >> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:25 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Seismic Question >> >> Brian, >> >> Do I find your company in Bothell, WA? >> >> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Is there any difference then between a Branch Line Restraint and an >>> End-Of Line restraint? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Brian Harris >>> FDFP INC. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of steve >>> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:31 AM >>> To: AFSA >>> Subject: Re: Seismic Question >>> >>> Not entirely as Matthew said. It satisfies those applications where >>> the standard prescribes that the hanger shall be of a type that >>> resists upward movement only. Restraint (as described in 13) is a >>> lesser form of lateral bracing and is to be installed at the specified >>> >> intervals and ends of lines. >> >>> And within 2' of a hanger that resists upward movement if I recall >>> correctly (don't have 13 with me - riding shotgun with my 15-year old >>> daughter at the moment). >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> >>> Sender: <[email protected]> >>> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:47:29 >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Reply-To: <[email protected]>Subject: Seismic Question >>> >>> Is a Surge Restraint (tolco #25) considered and End-Of-Line restraint >>> per >>> 9.3.6.3 (2007) ? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Brian Harris >>> >>> >>> >>> Design Engineer >>> >>> First Defense Fire Protection >>> 11957 Ramah Church Road >>> Huntersville NC 28078 >>> >>> >>> >>> [email protected] >>> www.firstdefensefire.com <outbind://80/www.firstdefensefire.com> >>> >>> Ph: 704.948.3506 >>> Fax: 704.948.3507 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 5364 (20100813)__________ The message was checked >>> by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ======= >>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15320) >>> http://www.pctools.com/ ======= >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> Instructor >> Fire Protection Engineering >> Bates Technical College >> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >> Tacoma, WA >> >> 253.680.7346 >> >> Member: >> AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC >> >> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, >> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> >> >> >> ======= >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15320) >> http://www.pctools.com/ ======= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5364 (20100813) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5364 (20100813) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
