How do you fill the systems without a JP? ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Tue Dec 07 07:22:41 2010 Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump
Yes Ron I understand that the leakage is related to UG. That's why I'm asking how a JP applies to an aboveground (in the building) system. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 5:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: High Rise Office Jockey pump Craig, Look in 2010 20/4.25 for perhaps a better explanation. That business about allowable leakage applies to UG piping. There's a ".normal drops in pressure.." clause in that sentence also and that refers to fluctuations for any reason. On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:22 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > "NFPA 20 2007, A.5.14.4 (1) A jockey pump is USUALLY required with > automatically controlled pumps." > > So based on that statement what would be an example where a JP would USUALLY > not be required? > > "A.5.24 Pressure maintenance (jockey or make-up) pumps should be used where > it is desirable to maintain a uniform or relatively high pressure on the fire > protection system. A jockey pump should be sized to make up the allowable > leakage rate within 10 minutes or 1 gpm (3.8 L/min), whichever is larger." > > But I should have no leakage, So.......? > > "5.24.1 Pressure maintenance pumps shall have rated capacities not less than > any normal leakage rate." > > My leakage rate should be zero? > > > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jack Carlson > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 5:08 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump > > > I seem to recall being told that a JP was required to keep the main pump from > cycling on and off due to minor pressure fluctuations. > > > Jack W. Carlson, SET > Triple "A" Fire Protection, Inc. > Cell - 706.247.5050 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump > > The question is what is the purpose of a JP in this application? > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:50 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: High Rise Office Jockey pump > > So is the question this: > > The building needs a fire pump to meet hose emends at the roof. > > or: > > To meet hose demand at the roof the municipal pump kicks in. > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:42 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> It's supplied off a pump supplemented private fire main. >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ronl.Fletcher >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:39 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump >> >> The artificially high pressure created by the jockey pump is usually >> necessary to prevent the main pump from starting because of fluctuations in >> the city pressure. If you have a very flat city curve it may be difficult to >> get a enough of a pressure drop from opening a hose valve to start the main >> pump. >> >> Ron Fletcher >> Aero Automatic >> Phoenix, AZ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 1:56 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump >> >> 132 psi static, 120 psi residual, is that low pressure? >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 3:47 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: High Rise Office Jockey pump >> >> That is the main reason for a jockey (pressure maintenance) pump. If the >> fire pump were to start into a low pressure line, the differential could >> cause physical damage to the piping and supports. >> >> Thank You >> >> Rahe Loftin, P.E. >> Region 7 - GSA >> Cell - 817-371-3102 >> >> >> >> >> >> Todd Williams >> <[email protected]> To >> Sent by: [email protected] >> sprinklerforum-bo cc >> un...@firesprinkl >> er.org Subject >> Re: High Rise Office Jockey pump >> >> 12/06/2010 02:17 >> PM >> >> >> Please respond to >> sprinklerfo...@fi >> resprinkler.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> For one, so that there is no or little surge in pressure when the >> fire pump kicks in >> >> >> At 03:06 PM 12/6/2010, you wrote: >>>I'm not used to buildings where there's nothing in it that will >>>leave a huge smoking crater so got a question. >>> >>>8 story office building, need to meet the 100 psi requirement for >>>the top remote hose connection, engineer has spec'd an electric fire >>>pump and jockey pump set. >>> >>>There is sufficient pressure and flow at the BOR for sprinkler >>>system operation but not hose. >>> >>>Is there really a need for a jockey pump on this type of >>>install? Since JP's are typically for maintaining pressure on >>>underground systems where leakage is typical what's the purpose in a >>>system like this? >>> >>>Any NFPA verbiage which permits their omission? So far I haven't >>>found anything specific. >>> >>>Craig L. Prahl, CET >>>Fire Protection >>>CH2MHILL >>>Lockwood Greene >>>1500 International Drive >>>Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>>Direct - 864.599.4102 >>>Fax - 864.599.8439 >>>CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>>[email protected] >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>[email protected] >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> Todd G. Williams, PE >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> Stonington, CT >> 860.535.2080 >> www.fpdc.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
