Craig,
you are right. If your system doesn't leak at all you don't need a jockeypump.
Unfortunately all sprinkler systems in the real world do leak.
Most of the times so little that the moist evaporates before it drips.
I know of systems where the jockeypump starts only once a month.
In an almost identical system the jp starts twice a day.
If you have some air buffer in a practically perfect network, the
weekly test run of the fire pump may prevent the jp from starting ever.
You may consider to omit the jockeypump in such a system.
You may also change your mind when you are called in the middle of
the night during Christmas holidays because the fire pump starts
automatically and nobody knows why. (They skipped the weekly testrun
because of the holidays.)
Ergo:
The only wet sprinkler system that doesn't need a jockeypump or other
means for pressure maintenance is a theoretical system.
BTW,
A JP is also USUALLY not required when the pressure is maintained by
an elevated fire water reservoir.
Met vriendelijke groet / Yours sincerely,
Frans Stoop
TOS architecture & fire protection
Netherlands <[email protected]>
Tel. +31-24-324 0112
At 15:22 6-12-2010 -0700, you wrote:
"NFPA 20 2007, A.5.14.4 (1) A jockey pump is USUALLY required with
automatically controlled pumps."
So based on that statement what would be an example where a JP would
USUALLY not be required?
"A.5.24 Pressure maintenance (jockey or make-up) pumps should be
used where it is desirable to maintain a uniform or relatively high
pressure on the fire protection system. A jockey pump should be
sized to make up the allowable leakage rate within 10 minutes or 1
gpm (3.8 L/min), whichever is larger."
But I should have no leakage, So.......?
"5.24.1 Pressure maintenance pumps shall have rated capacities not
less than any normal leakage rate."
My leakage rate should be zero?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jack Carlson
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 5:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump
I seem to recall being told that a JP was required to keep the main
pump from cycling on and off due to minor pressure fluctuations.
Jack W. Carlson, SET
Triple "A" Fire Protection, Inc.
Cell - 706.247.5050
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump
The question is what is the purpose of a JP in this application?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: High Rise Office Jockey pump
So is the question this:
The building needs a fire pump to meet hose emends at the roof.
or:
To meet hose demand at the roof the municipal pump kicks in.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:42 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's supplied off a pump supplemented private fire main.
>
> Craig L. Prahl, CET
> Fire Protection
> CH2MHILL
> Lockwood Greene
> 1500 International Drive
> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
> Direct - 864.599.4102
> Fax - 864.599.8439
> CH2MHILL Extension 74102
> [email protected]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ronl.Fletcher
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:39 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump
>
> The artificially high pressure created by the jockey pump is
usually necessary to prevent the main pump from starting because of
fluctuations in the city pressure. If you have a very flat city
curve it may be difficult to get a enough of a pressure drop from
opening a hose valve to start the main pump.
>
> Ron Fletcher
> Aero Automatic
> Phoenix, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 1:56 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: High Rise Office Jockey pump
>
> 132 psi static, 120 psi residual, is that low pressure?
>
> Craig L. Prahl, CET
> Fire Protection
> CH2MHILL
> Lockwood Greene
> 1500 International Drive
> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
> Direct - 864.599.4102
> Fax - 864.599.8439
> CH2MHILL Extension 74102
> [email protected]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 3:47 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: High Rise Office Jockey pump
>
> That is the main reason for a jockey (pressure maintenance) pump. If the
> fire pump were to start into a low pressure line, the differential could
> cause physical damage to the piping and supports.
>
> Thank You
>
> Rahe Loftin, P.E.
> Region 7 - GSA
> Cell - 817-371-3102
>
>
> Todd Williams
> <[email protected]> To
> Sent by: [email protected]
> sprinklerforum-bo cc
> un...@firesprinkl
> er.org Subject
> Re: High Rise Office Jockey pump
>
> 12/06/2010 02:17
> PM
>
> Please respond to
> sprinklerfo...@fi
> resprinkler.org
>
>
> For one, so that there is no or little surge in pressure when the
> fire pump kicks in
>
>
> At 03:06 PM 12/6/2010, you wrote:
>>I'm not used to buildings where there's nothing in it that will
>>leave a huge smoking crater so got a question.
>>
>>8 story office building, need to meet the 100 psi requirement for
>>the top remote hose connection, engineer has spec'd an electric fire
>>pump and jockey pump set.
>>
>>There is sufficient pressure and flow at the BOR for sprinkler
>>system operation but not hose.
>>
>>Is there really a need for a jockey pump on this type of
>>install? Since JP's are typically for maintaining pressure on
>>underground systems where leakage is typical what's the purpose in a
>>system like this?
>>
>>Any NFPA verbiage which permits their omission? So far I haven't
>>found anything specific.
>>
>>Craig L. Prahl, CET
>>Fire Protection
>>CH2MHILL
>>Lockwood Greene
>>1500 International Drive
>>Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
>>Direct - 864.599.4102
>>Fax - 864.599.8439
>>CH2MHILL Extension 74102
>>[email protected]
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>
> Todd G. Williams, PE
> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
> Stonington, CT
> 860.535.2080
> www.fpdc.com
>
> _______________________________________________
--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
[email protected]
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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