I've requested OIC's before and have either gotten nothing in return, they conflicted with other information or they were incomplete.
I try to include the basis for design criteria when it's something that looks a bit screwy. That way an AHJ or contractor looking at it can tell what set the criteria and not have to guess why this goofball showed a .17/3250 for an area. If the underwriter has had input or there are peculiar owner requirements I've included that in notes somewhere for project reference. Sometimes when you look back at a design, months or years later you will wonder why you did something a certain way. By just noting it in the design documents, you don't have to commit it to memory. Many owners will purposely conceal information at first. Trying to tip the scale towards the cheap route. But when you've been around industries long enough you pretty much know what they are going t be using and can pin them down. But there are always those who think they are getting by with something by trying to convince you that their Ethanol plant doesn't use anything flammable. No really they don't....... ;) I'm a firm believer that no PE license of any kind should be granted to any individual until they've worked at least five years in the field of their education. Once they've put their hand to the material they intend to design, they have no real life concept of what they are doing. It's all just words and pretty pictures. I know that will never happen but I can hope. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 11:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: top five list Well said Mark. I have a low tolerance for experts that don't know pendents from alarm valves. The Owner's Information Certificate is critical and we have never received one that we did not request. Not one job that a design professional has completed in which the OIC was completed prior to their design. We can preach liablility and rant and rave on this forum, but I really don't think the people that can change this statistic really care. Until they get sued. On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Mark Sornsin <[email protected]>wrote: > Duane: > > I think since you'll be speaking to future FPEs you should not only share > the final polished list the Forum-ites help you write, but you should share > the cynical answers as well. I think it would be very beneficial for the > students to understand the current attitudes towards consulting engineers > from the installing contractor community. Let them know how widely > ostracized Mechanical Engineers are in the fire sprinkler community due to > their apparent lack of concern for 'practicing within their areas of > expertise.' Similarly, make it clear to these future FPEs that having an > FPE after your name doesn't mean you're an expert when it comes to fire > sprinkler consulting. This Forum has plenty of experience with FPEs that may > know fire modeling or alarm systems, but don't do much better than the MEs > when it comes time to take responsibility for a fire sprinkler system. > > So challenge the students to take ownership of the systems with which they > are associated. Just because they may only be hired to provide a > 'performance specification,' that doesn't mean they can pass all engineering > off to the contractor. Know enough to complete a full system design, so that > when they provide performance specs, they understand what performance > parameters are required to properly bid the job. > > Mark A. Sornsin, PE| Fire Protection Engineer > Ulteig Engineers, Inc.| Fargo, ND > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane > (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:07 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: top five list > > I will be a guest lecturer at the Univ of Md next week. I will be > providing a list of must do's while preparing sprinkler drawings. Knowing > that many students will be going to work for consulting firms and others to > installation firms, I want to provide input from both perspectives. So I > ask the forum the following questions... here is your chance to provide > input to future industry personnel: > > > If you were asked to provide a top 5 list that an engineer should > do/identify on a sprinkler design, what would they be? > > > What are the first 5 items a sprinkler designer should do when preparing > drawings? > > > Feel free to email me direct. > Thanks. > > Duane Johnson, PE > Program Manager > Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research > Services National Institutes of Health > 301-496-0487 > > "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 fax 850-937-1852 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
