Now I don't get to do engineering so I have to follow 13 like Steve said. Clouds are like overhead doors or any other horizontal obstruction and 13 says I can ignore an entire tier (least demanding). I can calc more heads if I like but that's jut 'cause I'm guessing I ought to. If I don't it doesn't look right to me but again a guess. Now Todd can engineer a solution and, like he says, there's no testing so any "engineering" he does is voodoo engineering. Very similar to my guess. In my case though I can at least say I did what the genii (yes that's right-genius is singular for genii) at NFPA, the real experts, told me to do. If I'm uncomfortable with that I can suggest the moron that thought clouds looked cool should hire Todd to "engineer" a solution and I'll do exactly what I'm told (for extra dough of course, and particularly if the spec said design to 13, 'cause I didn't add the clouds, the clouds aren't mine, nor the building, nor the solution). Of course Todd is going to say calc both tiers because he has no engineering solution but his parts go on the anvil along with accepting the check. And Todd is not doing bad engineering but is merely unable to actually provide a real engineered solution due to lack of data. His solution then is also a guess but a conservative one. Well, know we're full circle and Bob has chosen that conservative approach and Todd misses his car payment because he's a good guy and told us all his secret. Reminds me of the Dilbert where the dog goes into the jewelry store and announces to the proprietor, "How can you charge huge sums of money for rocks you just pick up off the ground?" The proprietor has a thought cloud, "Damn, he's on to us!" And then in the word bubble says, "I'll give you this free bag of diamonds if you keep your mouth shut." The final panel has the dog walking down the street with a bag of diamonds. All in fun Todd--You know I love you, man.
On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Bob Knight <[email protected]> wrote: > Bad answer Todd, baaaaad answer! But I think I'm going to go with it. It > means up'ing the branch lines 1 size and throwing in a grid for the area > affected. Neither of which is really a big deal, this time. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 4:03 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Cloud Calculations > > The problem is that no one knows how sprinklers in a room with ceiling clouds > are going to react. I almost always calculate the full compliment for that > reason. FM Global requires all to be calculated. I did an FMG job last year, > 2500 sqft design area with clouds; 50 sprinklers in the calc area. Overkill, > probably. > > We really won't know what the right answer is until we get some fire testing. > > > At 05:47 PM 3/28/2011, you wrote: >>What would the consensus be (ok, ok, I know this is the forum, but...) in an >>open office enviro with uprights at the ceiling and pendent's in the ceiling >>clouds in regards to calc's? I will have a 1500 sf area w/ no reduction. I >>will obviously be calc'ing all the uprights w/in the design area, but what >>about the pendent's in the clouds? Do I calc all the ceiling cloud heads >>w/in the DA? Two heads? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Bob Knight >>(208) 639-8790 Direct Phone >>(208) 639-8791 Direct Fax >>(208) 994-1439 Cell >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
