NFPA 20 sets the minimum pressure at 150% rated flow at -3 psi for tank fed systems and max velocity of 15 fps within 10 pipe diameters of pump suction (I think).
-Brian On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Vince Sabolik <[email protected]>wrote: > > I forgot, maybe the minimum suction pressure can't go below -14.7 so this >> would mean considerably less flow than 1500. >> > > I was trying to find out what maximum draft on a fire pump was last night, > gave up > and decided to watch the Indians lose. Again. Anyone know the answer? I'd > like either - > the Indians <or > that draft thing. > > > > Where are the academics when we need some hydraulic theory? >> >> Bill Brooks >> >> William N. Brooks, P.E. >> Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. >> 372 Wilett Drive >> Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 >> 410-544-3620 >> 410-544-3032 FAX >> 412-400-6528 Cell >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy >> Henderson >> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 1:00 PM >> To: [email protected] >> >> Subject: RE: Pump, Tank, 1000 ft suction line..... >> >> No, I don't need a PC to do the calc but I'd like for hydra calc to show >> all >> this w/o an additional set. Things like that tend to confuse the AHJ's - >> especially hand written things. You would think a multi thousand dollar >> program would be able to take the calc from a tank to the pump and to the >> system in one report - but it looks like that's not the case. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 6/7/11, George Church <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> From: George Church <[email protected]> >> Subject: RE: Pump, Tank, 1000 ft suction line..... >> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:47 PM >> >> Why not take a piece of paper, write down the length of the run, multiply >> it >> by the FL/ft, and use a calculator to multiply the two and get the >> friction >> loss? >> Then correct for any dif in elevation by multiplying the dif x .433. >> It really isn't that hard and you really don't need a pc to run a simple >> supply calc. >> >> Ok, maybe I should say you SHOULDn'T need a pc.... >> >> >> George L. Church, Jr., CET >> Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. >> PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 >> 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy >> Henderson >> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:29 PM >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Pump, Tank, 1000 ft suction line..... >> >> Bob, >> >> That's kind of what I was getting at. I'll probably just have to submit a >> separate calc showing the 150% pump rating through the pump to the tank to >> prove the losses are acceptable. Does anyone know if there is a way to do >> this in a single calc in hydracalc? I can put in an additional water >> 'source' but then would have to enter in a static, res, and flow for the >> tank to get it to run through the program and these numbers are unknown >> (except for static). >> >> Thanks, >> >> RB >> >> >> --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Bob <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> From: Bob <[email protected]> >> Subject: RE: Pump, Tank, 1000 ft suction line..... >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Monday, June 6, 2011, 11:05 PM >> >> Ralph, >> Looking at this I'm coming up with 20.3 psi loss in 1000' of pipe not >> counting fittings and valves. >> (4.52*1000.00^1.85)/(140^1.85*6.4^4.85) = .0203 .0203 * 1000 = 20.3. >> 6.4" >> is ID of 6" Tyton Joint Pipe DI. Fittings and valves will increase your >> losses. At 1500 gpm you will have .43 psi / ft loss. These numbers will >> vary depending on pipe type and ID. As far as how to do it; I think I >> would >> simply run the numbers through the calculation back to the tank. Or >> better >> yet, if there are hydrants fed off of the tank have a flow test performed >> and calc back to that point of connection. >> >> Bob Knight, CET III >> 208-318-3057 >> www.firebyknight.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vince >> Sabolik >> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 4:37 PM >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Pump, Tank, 1000 ft suction line..... >> >> Ralph - >> >> My rough calcs say about 16 psi loss at 100% flow and 34 psi loss at 150% >> flow. >> Unless this is an elevated tank, or your source is uphill from the pump, >> this won't work. >> >> At 06:32 PM 6/6/2011, you wrote: >> >at 1000 gpm, you are going to lose about 2 psi per 100' of 6" >> >ductile iron pipe. At 1500 gpm, you are going to lose about 5 psi / >> >100' of DI pipe. You need to have enough elevation between the tank >> >and pump to provide a positive pressure at the suction flange. >> > >> >On 6/6/2011 3:28 PM, Ralphy Henderson wrote: >> >>Hi All, >> >> >> >>Can someone explain to me how one would go about calculating a fire >> >>pump being fed solely from a water storage tank but with a 6" x >> >>1,000 ft suction line? I've calculated fire pumps off of tanks that >> >>had a small 10 ft. suction lines directly off the tank but never one >> >>with this amount of underground line and I'm concerned about making >> >>sure friction losses in the suction are properly accounted for. The >> >>pump is 75 psi @ 1000 gpm. >> >> >> >>We use hydracalc, and typically when a fire pump and tank scenario >> >>comes up we have only one 'source', the pump, being specified. >> >>Would this change in this instance? I guess the main thing I'm >> >>concerned about is coming up with a negative pressure at the suction >> >>flange due to such a long run. >> >> >> >>Any help? >> >> >> >>-RB >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>[email protected] >> >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >>to:[email protected] >> >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >signature database 6185 (20110606) __________ >> > >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> >> Vince Sabolik >> Christi Fire Protection, Inc. >> 11351 Pearl Road >> Strongsville, Ohio 44136 >> >> T 440 572-7730 F 440 572-7719 Email: >> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > Vince Sabolik > Christi Fire Protection, Inc. > 11351 Pearl Road > Strongsville, Ohio 44136 > > T 440 572-7730 F 440 572-7719 Email: <mailto:[email protected]> > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
