QR reduction is only allowed on wet pipe systems.
On Dec 14, 2011 5:23 PM, "Tom Duross" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I got a couple of low air alarms today.  I'm on call with their FA service
> company as we do 34 of these facilities for this client.  Time is running
> out for me.  Todd, I gave them your number.  (joke)  I did speak with the
> Deputy and he was willing to work with us if we were going to shut down and
> refill every day but I told him I wasn't confident in the integrity of the
> system as a whole.  I called an FPE friend who's been around a long time, a
> few competitors, my Dad and re-read all your posts.  I emailed my client
> and
> cc'd the Deputy, I think a temporary cpvc wet system around the perimeter
> as
> a life safety system is a must.  Then a complete replacement of the attic
> system (in galvy) will be the course of action.  Maybe most of the uprights
> sprigs will be ok but all that horizontal has got to go.  I'm also planning
> on a low diff dpv and changing the Siamese to storz (per the Deputy).  I
> can
> then test the entire dry system, and turn it over and remove the temp.
> system.  I think full 13, I believe if I use QR dry pendent I can use the
> area reduction and not be lessening the original level of protection but I
> think SR heads will go in the attic.
>
> Baby brother and I have great people skills.  We just spent yesterday and
> today working in an extended care facility and played some trivial pursuit
> with the ladies group in the dining room today after putting everything
> back
> in service and waiting for the FA guy.  There's this one Asian woman who
> comes up and hugs me at the group residence (she's the one who was dumped
> there as an infant).  I look forward to seeing her every year.  She can't
> speak and is severely retarded.  Yes, it's 24/7, 3 shifts a day.  It's only
> 5 bedrooms but some have cots as they sometimes have a temporary client.
> That's the issue I had with the Architect just looking at the floor plan
> plus applying todays code to an older existing application.
>
> Thanks everyone.  I have a plan, just need to work out the details.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron
> Greenman
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:18 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion"
>
> These are good points being made. And each state, though similar, has many
> small nuances in the definition of Group Home, Nursing Home, Extended Care,
> etc. I'm not sure I can sort out Washington and fifteen or so years ago I
> was involved with a committee that redefined some of these definitions
> after
> one of those multi-fatality fires in a building with non-ambulatory elderly
> that wasn't even required to be sprinklered at all. If you're going to
> redefine this occupancy I think you need some conferences (depending on how
> power is distributed where you are) with the local FM, the State FM, the
> State Health Guys, the local  BO, and anyone else with a regulatory stake
> in
> this. Not necessarily an engineering issue so an engineer isn't necessary.
> This will all be defined within the various prescriptive rules of the laws
> that apply. You still might want, or even be required to have an engineer,
> for a licensed person of responsibility (the buck stops at the engineer).
> And why couldn't you leave an existing piping system in while installing a
> replacement system unless due to physical impossibility. I'd be happier
> with
> a functioning, even if failing, system in place while a new replacement
> system was being installed than have no system at all. If your fitters have
> good customer relations skills (when I when for a living I mostly did
> repair/remodel work and I kept essentially inefficient fitters that could
> work in occupied spaces and not chaff the customers simply because of that
> latter skill was more important in that environment than high-output
> production skills) and you design in such a way that you only have that
> final switch over day with the water down everyone should be happier. And
> once you convince the FM this is how he'd like the job to proceed you then
> have another bullet for your gun when explaining to the customer why it's
> so
> expensive.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:34 AM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > No blood drawn, no money lost, no problem
> >
> >
> > At 06:29 AM 12/14/2011, you wrote:
> > >Sorry, I meant Tom
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [email protected] [mailto:
> > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne
> > Martinez
> > >Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 5:23 AM
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion"
> > >
> > >Todd,
> > >Any way to run a new system next to the old before you take it out of
> > service?  That way there would only be minimal disruption when you
> > change over.
> > >Keep it dry in the attic with a exposed or soffit concealed wet pipe
> > system below?
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [email protected] [mailto:
> > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Duross
> > >Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:31 PM
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion"
> > >
> > >Attic is about a 12/12 pitch, a good 10' to the ridge.  Very vented
> > attic, the wind whips through.  I'm thinking of filling it with glycol
> > and hydro the pipe, I worry about any residual water freezing if I use
> > it.  The tree feed main starts 4" and scales down to 2" and it's all
> screwed pipe.
> >  The season and current occupancy is what worries me.  I showed up two
> > winters ago when some water up there froze and it burst and it was 2
> > in the morning, snowing (it's right on the water, surrounded by
> > lobstermen) and these poor clients were in vans in the parking lot to
> keep
> warm.
> > >
> > >They have an Architect they use and I had her forward my report and
> > >email
> > to him.  He called and said I could sprinkler it per 13D as R4 under
> > certain amendments in MA's section 310 with 5 or fewer licensed under
> > a MA agency.
> > >I think Chris is right about applying current codes to older
> > >buildings,
> > something just didn't seem right.  The building is owned by the state,
> > licensed and leased to them as operators.
> > >
> > >I do need to do an internal inspection and I'm afraid I'm going to
> > >find
> > rotten pipe everywhere.  I worry about the clients as they're
> > multi-handicapped adults, some were dropped off there as infants.  I
> > can't disrupt their lives.  I'm thinking that maybe I might propose a
> > temporary wet system to protect the living area while we probably
> > replace the entire attic system.  Just so I don't have to make them have
> to move.
> > >I have a younger brother like these people so it rings a certain
> > >tender
> > importance to me, not that it wouldn't either way.
> > >
> > >I plan to offer some plans to them, and they will have to go to the
> state.
> > >I've written back to the Architect and want to include him too.  I
> > >also
> > want to sit with the chief, he was there 2 winters ago, and a nice
> > guy.  I have to do some Code research.  I also have that tick tock of
> > an air compressor running, 24 hrs. and hoping the phone doesn't ring..
> > >
> > >Thanks for all the education forumites.  Any and all ideas very
> welcomed.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [email protected]
> > >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George
> > Church
> > >Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:52 PM
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion"
> > >
> > >Can you make it in a non-freeze, nonflammable medium to replace AF?
> > >Find the leaks, fix em, leave it in there.
> > >
> > >George L.  Church, Jr., CET
> > >Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc.
> > >PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842
> > >877-324-ROWE       570-837-6335 fax
> > >[email protected]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [email protected]
> > >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> > >Charles
> > Thurston
> > >Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 12:56 PM
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: Re: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion"
> > >
> > >Hello
> > >
> > >Hmm Off to invent fluorescent, colored, peppermint scented, smoke to
> > >get
> > listed as a leak detection method for Dry Systems.
> > >
> > >Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 12:46:15 PM, you wrote:
> > >
> > >> I seem to recall in a previous thread not too long ago that someone
> > >> suggested some sort of fluorescent dye that could be injected into
> > >> the system and then be seen with a blacklight.  An attic might be a
> > >> good space to use this sort of approach to help trace leaks.
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Best regards,
> > > Charles                            mailto:[email protected]
> > >
> > > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any
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> > Todd G. Williams, PE
> > Fire Protection Design/Consulting
> > Stonington, CT
> > 860.535.2080
> > www.fpdc.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Ron Greenman
> Instructor
> Fire Protection Engineering Technology
> Bates Technical College
> 1101 So. Yakima Ave.
> Tacoma, WA 98405
>
> [email protected]
>
> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
>
> 253.680.7346
> 253.576.9700 (cell)
>
> Member:
> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC
>
> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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