I got a couple of low air alarms today. I'm on call with their FA service company as we do 34 of these facilities for this client. Time is running out for me. Todd, I gave them your number. (joke) I did speak with the Deputy and he was willing to work with us if we were going to shut down and refill every day but I told him I wasn't confident in the integrity of the system as a whole. I called an FPE friend who's been around a long time, a few competitors, my Dad and re-read all your posts. I emailed my client and cc'd the Deputy, I think a temporary cpvc wet system around the perimeter as a life safety system is a must. Then a complete replacement of the attic system (in galvy) will be the course of action. Maybe most of the uprights sprigs will be ok but all that horizontal has got to go. I'm also planning on a low diff dpv and changing the Siamese to storz (per the Deputy). I can then test the entire dry system, and turn it over and remove the temp. system. I think full 13, I believe if I use QR dry pendent I can use the area reduction and not be lessening the original level of protection but I think SR heads will go in the attic.
Baby brother and I have great people skills. We just spent yesterday and today working in an extended care facility and played some trivial pursuit with the ladies group in the dining room today after putting everything back in service and waiting for the FA guy. There's this one Asian woman who comes up and hugs me at the group residence (she's the one who was dumped there as an infant). I look forward to seeing her every year. She can't speak and is severely retarded. Yes, it's 24/7, 3 shifts a day. It's only 5 bedrooms but some have cots as they sometimes have a temporary client. That's the issue I had with the Architect just looking at the floor plan plus applying todays code to an older existing application. Thanks everyone. I have a plan, just need to work out the details. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:18 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion" These are good points being made. And each state, though similar, has many small nuances in the definition of Group Home, Nursing Home, Extended Care, etc. I'm not sure I can sort out Washington and fifteen or so years ago I was involved with a committee that redefined some of these definitions after one of those multi-fatality fires in a building with non-ambulatory elderly that wasn't even required to be sprinklered at all. If you're going to redefine this occupancy I think you need some conferences (depending on how power is distributed where you are) with the local FM, the State FM, the State Health Guys, the local BO, and anyone else with a regulatory stake in this. Not necessarily an engineering issue so an engineer isn't necessary. This will all be defined within the various prescriptive rules of the laws that apply. You still might want, or even be required to have an engineer, for a licensed person of responsibility (the buck stops at the engineer). And why couldn't you leave an existing piping system in while installing a replacement system unless due to physical impossibility. I'd be happier with a functioning, even if failing, system in place while a new replacement system was being installed than have no system at all. If your fitters have good customer relations skills (when I when for a living I mostly did repair/remodel work and I kept essentially inefficient fitters that could work in occupied spaces and not chaff the customers simply because of that latter skill was more important in that environment than high-output production skills) and you design in such a way that you only have that final switch over day with the water down everyone should be happier. And once you convince the FM this is how he'd like the job to proceed you then have another bullet for your gun when explaining to the customer why it's so expensive. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:34 AM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: > No blood drawn, no money lost, no problem > > > At 06:29 AM 12/14/2011, you wrote: > >Sorry, I meant Tom > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne > Martinez > >Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 5:23 AM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: RE: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion" > > > >Todd, > >Any way to run a new system next to the old before you take it out of > service? That way there would only be minimal disruption when you > change over. > >Keep it dry in the attic with a exposed or soffit concealed wet pipe > system below? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Duross > >Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:31 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: RE: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion" > > > >Attic is about a 12/12 pitch, a good 10' to the ridge. Very vented > attic, the wind whips through. I'm thinking of filling it with glycol > and hydro the pipe, I worry about any residual water freezing if I use > it. The tree feed main starts 4" and scales down to 2" and it's all screwed pipe. > The season and current occupancy is what worries me. I showed up two > winters ago when some water up there froze and it burst and it was 2 > in the morning, snowing (it's right on the water, surrounded by > lobstermen) and these poor clients were in vans in the parking lot to keep warm. > > > >They have an Architect they use and I had her forward my report and > >email > to him. He called and said I could sprinkler it per 13D as R4 under > certain amendments in MA's section 310 with 5 or fewer licensed under > a MA agency. > >I think Chris is right about applying current codes to older > >buildings, > something just didn't seem right. The building is owned by the state, > licensed and leased to them as operators. > > > >I do need to do an internal inspection and I'm afraid I'm going to > >find > rotten pipe everywhere. I worry about the clients as they're > multi-handicapped adults, some were dropped off there as infants. I > can't disrupt their lives. I'm thinking that maybe I might propose a > temporary wet system to protect the living area while we probably > replace the entire attic system. Just so I don't have to make them have to move. > >I have a younger brother like these people so it rings a certain > >tender > importance to me, not that it wouldn't either way. > > > >I plan to offer some plans to them, and they will have to go to the state. > >I've written back to the Architect and want to include him too. I > >also > want to sit with the chief, he was there 2 winters ago, and a nice > guy. I have to do some Code research. I also have that tick tock of > an air compressor running, 24 hrs. and hoping the phone doesn't ring.. > > > >Thanks for all the education forumites. Any and all ideas very welcomed. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] > >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George > Church > >Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:52 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: RE: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion" > > > >Can you make it in a non-freeze, nonflammable medium to replace AF? > >Find the leaks, fix em, leave it in there. > > > >George L. Church, Jr., CET > >Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > >PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > >877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > >[email protected] > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] > >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >Charles > Thurston > >Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 12:56 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: Changing Code Standards in an Existing Bldg. "Opinion" > > > >Hello > > > >Hmm Off to invent fluorescent, colored, peppermint scented, smoke to > >get > listed as a leak detection method for Dry Systems. > > > >Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 12:46:15 PM, you wrote: > > > >> I seem to recall in a previous thread not too long ago that someone > >> suggested some sort of fluorescent dye that could be injected into > >> the system and then be seen with a blacklight. An attic might be a > >> good space to use this sort of approach to help trace leaks. > > > > > >-- > >Best regards, > > Charles mailto:[email protected] > > > > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any > > attachments, > is for the sole purpose of the intended recipients and may contain > confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the > intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and > destroy all copies of the original message. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachment s/20111214/e6cc0287/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
