Steve, Absolutely valid idea to use the interconnected smoke alarms (ps the interconnect doesnt even have to be hardwired with the 2012 I-Codes) as alarm notification for a waterflow condition on 13D systems where a household fire alarm system is not required or provided. This is consistent with IRC R-314 which permits either smoke alarms OR household fire alarm systems for dwelling fire warning. Treat the waterflow switch like a isolated tandem heat alarm which is a contact device similar to a waterflow switch, how do dry contact devices vary from manufacturer to manufacturer ?, Voltage separation (Power Limited/Class I/Non Power Limited) ?,....already provided for by way of a barrier pursuant to NFPA-70 Article 725 and 760, Current (Amperage) Limit ?, if the waterflow switch is listed for a 110V non power limited/class I bell circuit how would this differ for a non power limited/class I smoke alarm circuit ?, already provided for in NFPA-70 Article 725 and 760. As for the latching argument, whats the difference the smoke alarms dont latch either nor does the exterior waterflow alarm. Smoke alarms meet the prescriptive smoke detection and notification requirements of the IBC, IRC and NFPA-72 and are listed to UL-217 which is all thats required. Reality is we need to do it cost effectively. PS, dont forget Gentex. John John Drucker, CET Assistant Construction Official Fire Protection Subcode Official Building/Fire/Electrical Inspector Borough of Red Bank, New Jersey Office: 732-530-2760 X 331 Cell/Text: 732-904-6823 Email: [email protected]
________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of Steve Leyton Sent: Wed 5/29/2013 5:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: 13R local alarm Last cycle, when we were discussing yet another proposal to require a mandatory local waterflow alarm in 13D, I asked out loud why it would be so difficult to do just as Todd's fire official directed, i.e. use the smoke detector loop as an audible network. And the answer is as simple as most of the other "gotcha's" in our business: These appliances aren't listed as a audible alarm device. And how you power them with a flow switch could vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and many likely can't be configured that way. If anyone out there knows of a listed combination smoke detector/interior audible alarm device, please send me that info off forum at your very earliest convenience. If such an item doesn't yet exist, perhaps the good people at Potter or System Sensor or another manufacturer will see a business opportunity ... Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker - Home Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: 13R local alarm Todd, How old are the smoke alarms ?, at 10 yrs. their due for replacement anyway. As I commented earlier, a prescriptive way to solve the issue. John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire / Building / Electrical Inspector New Jersey -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd - Work Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 13R local alarm The FM asked for the sprinkler alarms to be connected to ring the smoke detectors. I asked if a separate bell would be acceptable. The present system is essentially residential hard wired smokes. I'm not sure if all of the devices in each unit go off when one activates. There is no annunciation. I don't think the detectors are wired to accept additional input, so the entire system would have to be replaced if we have to interconnect. Right now they are not being asked to upgrade the alarms and this is not a town with a wimpy fire marshal. The alarm system is beyond my contract and the drawing notes state so. That is a can of worms I will let someone else open. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT www.fpdc.com On May 29, 2013, at 3:07 PM, "Tom Duross" <[email protected]> wrote: > We had a local town home rule go into effect 15+ years ago requiring > sprinklers in anything 3+ units "substantially" renovated but it > forgot to mention annunciation (also forgot water supply). Many slick > property owners got together and sued and after the dust settled, it > was decided to put an electric bell in the stair lobby or main lobby > of each unit plus the outside. No formal fire alarm was required. > I've done the accessory relay to wire a dry contact to a 3 wire 120 > vac smoke circuit but it voids the listing of the smokes, or did (been > many years). > These days Todd, I don't know how you could install a sprinkler system > under current MA code and not have to install a formal 72 FA. 3 units > or more requires supervision and central station in MA. > TD > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Mike Henke > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM > To: [email protected]; > [email protected] > Subject: RE: 13R local alarm > > It may be possible to activate both the smoke alarms and a separate > waterflow alarm. > The flowswitch should have 2 sets of contacts. > One switch can activate a local alarm such as the 120 vac mini horn > The other switch may be able to activate the smoke alarms. > > This would provide the additional signal for waterflow so it wouldn't > be confused with burnt toast. > > You probably have to contact the detector manufacturer to see how and > if the detectors can be activated from a separate switch. They may > have a separate module for this. > There are some products on the market for this such as Firex but I > don't know if they universally work with all makes and models of smoke alarms. > There was also a carrier frequency device made by Cepco products for this. > > Regards, > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY: This email message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential, nor is it, unless specifically stated, intended to be relied upon by any person or persons other than the individual or entity named above and no warranties or representations are made or intended to persons or entities not named above. 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