Ron - the example of a car is great. I will use that in the future. All most everyone understands a car.
John John August Denhardt, P.E., FSFPE Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated 5113 Berwyn Road College Park, Maryland 20740 Office Telephone Number: 301-474-1136 Mobile Telephone Number: 301-343-1457 FIRE SPRINKLERS SAVE LIVES - Can you live without them? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 10:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Residential Garages, 13R & me. Jim, My continuing position would be after the residential sprinkler becomes ubiquitous throughout the country then will be time to start worrying about property protection and those currently unsprinklered spaces. When the consumer psychology was finally changed from seat belts cost too much, seat belts will trap you in the car if the car is on fire or suffers a water landing, seat belts are uncomfortable, to I expect seat belts in any car I buy, then the road was opened for shoulder straps, then front collision airbags, then side collision bags, collapsing steering wheels, drop out motors, reinforced passenger cages, crumple construction to absorb energy. Now when someone complains about how small accidents cause the car to be totaled, they'll listen to the safety rationale behind it and maybe even understand that their survivability is more important than the car's. Once we're their with sprinkler psychology I'd like to see 13D & R specifically renamed as standards of a lesser code, with more stringent requirements in 13 proper, with some lesser requirements for these particular types of occupancies. Then there is some leeway that can be applied in the building code that would specifically allow those those things the builders are always clamoring for if they use the full standard, but not the lesser. I'd also like it very well noted that the lesser standard is not designed the protect the property. Once the consumer is expecting the increased safety and finds out property protection is not included, but could be for pennies relative to the mortgage, he'll opt for the upgrade and before you know it 13D & R will be relics of the past. Prematurely going beyond the current standard is ammunition for the builders anti-sprinkler rhetoric. On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:14 AM, Jim Kettler <[email protected]>wrote: > Great points here. > > We've tried to maintain the philosophy from Ron and listed below with our > sprinkler requirements. We do not require sprinklers in garages. The > previous FM made the hard fight to get the sprinkler ordinance passed. I > was "blessed" with the implementation when he retired. For those pushing > for sprinkler legislation, please remember that legislation is only half > the battle (maybe even less than half). > > We tried to stay with NFPA13D - my fall back answer has been "we only > require what is in the standard". We do highly recommend a flow alarm. > > All that said, there have been several sprinkler "saves" in nearby towns > where the sprinkler in the garage activated and controlled the fire. > > Jim K. > > > James M. Kettler, EFO, CFPS > Director of Building and Codes/Fire Marshal > PO Box 413 > 4613 Hughesian Drive > Buckingham, PA 18912 > 215.794.8836 (office) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:06 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Residential Garages, 13R & me. > > AHJs tend to try to worry property and firefighter protection into 13D. > Reasonable from their point of view, but the idea behind the standard is 1. > get everyone out and 2. make it cheap enough to b attractive to all the > naysayers. If the occupants escape and it burns to the ground no problem, > met the performance spec (everybody got out). If it's too dangerous for > firefighters to enter and people are inside then it failed. If it's > dangerous and everyone is out leave it be. Don't get on the roof. Don't > ventilate. Don't attempt a save. Surround and drown is the proper response. > adding sprinklers too unoccupied spaces like garages won't help with 1 and > will be detrimental to 2. > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
