How about I have a 16' x 24' room. The room is divided along the 16' dimension at 16' by an >8" horizontal obstruction (call it a beam, a lintel or, like my wife, a little wall that doesn't reach the floor). So I know have a ceiling area of 16' x 16' and another of 16' x 8'. At the floor I have one area of 16' x 24'. No question that the horizontal member defining the two ceiling areas is an obstruction to spray, but does it effect heat collection (we'll get back to that other thread soon) sufficiently in 13D to make a difference in response time relative to the performance criteria of buying an extra 10 minutes of escape time before reaching flashover in the room (compartment?) of origin? If I put a full height wing of 2 ' on either end, effectively creating a 12' wide door opening, does that make any difference? Can I only have a 3' door opening to call that horizontal member a lintel? Does it require an actual closable door? What about 4' opening with a door like I have in my house? What about four 3' doorways in my 16' wall with a 9+" full eight wall between and on either end of the four "holes?" I've always used a reflected ceiling cut at 8" below the ceiling. As a rule any down projections from the ceiling that I could see the bottom of didn't exist when considering compartmentalization and any that projected further than those eight inches were essentially full walls. This conversation has muddied my mind regarding my simplistic interpretation , but has not so far offered an, or a group of, alternative ways to parse it out.
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:33 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > 13 (2013) 8.7.3.1.4 seems to support the lintel as a beam. > > 8.7.3.1.4 Sidewall spray sprinklers shall not be installed back-to-back > without being separated by a continuous lintel or soffit. > > Ron F > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of rongreenman . > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: showers included in bathroom area > > Yes, I'm wrestling with that beam in, say, a living room. It's an > obstruction, it's kind of a compartment, it kind of compartmentalizes the > room, but...? So if it's a lintel, defined as a "beam" over a door it > doesn't compartmentalize one section from another if there's no wall to > either side, but it does if there is wall, no matter how short? If there's > a shower door does that count? What about that living room beam with two > feet of wall on either end of a sixteen foot free span, with the architect > calling one side living and the other dining? I think tis can be pretty > shaky stuff for literalists. > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Roland Huggins > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > the same logic would say a beam in the middle of a room make it two > > compartments. If you have a 8" obstruction on two sides of the shower > > but no portion of either span is a wall, then it isn't a lintel. > > > > > > Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering > > American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives > > Dallas, TX > > http://www.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 2013, at 11:32 AM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > If there is at least eight inches on both sides I'd argue that it > > separates > > > compartments. If not it's something else. Since it defines an > > > overhead separation between compartments it is a portal from one to > > > the other and therefore a doorway. If someone wants to argue > > > otherwise I'm open to persuasion. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
