Except that as pointed out earlier, 23.4.4.1.1.4 Where the available floor area for a specific area/density design criteria, including any extension of area as required by 11.1.2 and Section 12.3, is less than the required minimum design area, the design area shall be permitted to only include those sprinklers within the available design area.
23.4.4.1.1.5 Where the total design discharge from these operating sprinklers is less than the minimum required discharge determined by multiplying the required design density times the required minimum design area, an additional flow shall be added at the point of connection of the branch line to the cross main furthest from the source to increase the overall demand, not including hose stream allowance, to the minimum required discharge as determined above. I meet the minimum required discharge of 300 gpm and therefore satisfy the design/area requirement allowed. Thank You, Bob Knight, CET III 208-318-3057 www.Firebyknight.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Cooler Calc I agree to the extent this is how you decide to extend 15' past or not. Nowhere does it say you can be less than the remote area. You can do your 1,392 OH and add 108 outside the cooler at whatever that density is required because the cooler wall is a physical barrier capable of delaying the heat.... You get 1,500 total. If the wall wasn't capable then you'd have to use the cooler density for the 108 extra (plus the 15' beyond). That how I read it anyway it's a density section of code not an area section of code. Chris Cahill, PE* Associate Fire Protection Engineer Burns & McDonnell Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com *Registered in: MN Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 1:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Cooler Calc Chris, NFPA 13 11.1.2 Adjacent Hazards or Design Methods. For buildings with two or more adjacent hazards or design methods, the following shall apply: (1) Where areas are not physically separated by a barrier or partition capable of delaying heat from a fire in one area from fusing sprinklers in the adjacent area, the required sprinkler protection for the more demanding design basis shall extend 15 ft (4.6 m) beyond its perimeter. This simply says that there needs to be a portion or barrier capable of slowing heat release from one area to another. I'm not using room design, but area/density even in the instance of an area slightly less than 1500 ft2. Thank You, Bob Knight, CET III 208-318-3057 www.Firebyknight.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Cooler Calc Except the cooler walls probably don't meet the definition for largest room because the wall aren't rated for OH (60 min right?). You probably have an argument if the wall don't go to the structure then you are protecting under the obstruction so you are showing the most demanding above or below. I'm assuming this is not its own system as well. If it's its own system then you have an argument there as you never have to cross system boundaries. We once considered breaking up a small building into several under 1,500 sq.ft. system to avoid a tank and pump. We only considered never executed. Chris Cahill, PE* Associate Fire Protection Engineer Burns & McDonnell Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com *Registered in: MN Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Cooler Calc His stand is that I have one of three options that I have not used: (1) Density/area curves of Figure 11.2.3.1.1 in accordance with the density/area method of 11.2.3.2 (2) The room that creates the greatest demand in accordance with the room design method of 11.2.3.3 (3) Special design areas in accordance with 11.2.3.4 Keep in mind that this is a jurisdiction that has told me in the past that you can't use the exceptions in 13 (this was before they became part of the body), and that they can't use common sense. Thank You, Bob Knight, CET III 208-318-3057 www.Firebyknight.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tim Stone Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 11:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Cooler Calc The Cooler is a closed in room with a space above. You calculate all the heads inside the cooler if less than 1500 SF. If the area outside the cooler is fully sprinklered then you probably have performed calcs already. I'd ask the AHJ to review NFPA 13. Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 1:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Cooler Calc I have a 1,392 sf cooler. I calc'ed the entire area of the cooler and submitted. The AHJ is telling me that I need to calc additional sprinklers at the ceiling to have a 1500 sf design area. I don't think I need to do this, I was looking at this as a separate fire area, and I don't see it being much different than not adding heads below ducts or other large obstructions. Do I need to calc additional sprinklers at the ceiling for this application? Thank You, Bob Knight, CET III 208-318-3057 www.Firebyknight.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
