The 2012 IBC added the following section which appears to frown upon utilizing "active" elements to achieve the fire rating, but kept the atrium exception allowing closely spaced sprinklers. Go figure...
2012 IBC: 703.4 Automatic sprinklers. Under the prescriptive fire-resistance requirements of the International Building Code, the fire-resistance rating of a building element, component or assembly shall be established without the use of automatic sprinklers or any other fire suppression system being incorporated as part of the assembly tested in accordance with the fire exposure, procedures, and acceptance criteria specified in ASTM E 119 or UL 263. However, this section shall not prohibit or limit the duties and powers of the building official allowed by Sections 104.10 and 104.11. Jack Fairchild -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Young Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 12:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Atrium I thought I had seen something recently saying that the 2016 edition of NFPA 13 was finally going to add listed window sprinklers to chapter 8... Oh right, It was James Golinveaux's presentation for the changes... I think its supposed to be 8.15.25 So this will at least finally give everyone top cover when using window sprinklers in non-atrium settings. Benjamin Young On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:59 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > This is an interesting thread. There is Tyco's specific application > window sprinkler, which has been tested and listed for protecting a > glazed barrier (to keep it from becoming a ~crazed~ barrier). With > the listing comes restrictions, e.g. no horizontal mullions. Then > there is IBC's prescription for "sprinklers" with a performance based > requirement to wet the entire glass surface. > > Without full-scale tests proving a certain arrangement of standard > sprinklers can protect glazing with horizontal mullions, I would be > forced to put sprinklers at the top and at every horizontal mullion level. > > J. Scott Mitchell, PE > Fire Protection Engineer | > Projects Engineering > CNS Pantex | 806.477.5883 | > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark A. > Sornsin, P.E. > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 8:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Atrium > > I agree with Geoff. The problem remains the total wetting of the glass. > This cannot be achieved with the horizontal mullions in place. > Moreover, can "entire surface of the glass" be wetted using standard > sprinklers in a water curtain arrangement as opposed to listed window > sprinklers? > > Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection > Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | > http://www.kfiengineers.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken > Holsopple > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 11:24 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Atrium > > Roland, > > I don't disagree but..... > > If Section 404.6 (see below) of the IBC prescribes the closely spaced > sprinklers and the architect choses that instead of the other options > listed to protect the atrium, then is it that big of a jump to apply > Sections 8.15.4 and 11.3.3 out of NFPA 13? (2007 edition.) > > I only ask because the commentary in the 2007 handbook seems to allude > that the requirement to provide the curtains is driven by the building > code(s) and the NFPA 13 gives the how to. > > 404.6 Enclosure of atriums. Atrium spaces shall be separated from > adjacent spaces by a I-hour fire barrier constructed in accordance > with Section 707 or a horizontal assembly constructed in accordance > with Section 712, or both. > > Exceptions: > 1. A glass wall forming a smoke partition where automatic > sprinklers are spaced 6 feet (1829 mm) or less along both sides of the > separation wall, or on the room side only if there is not a walkway on > the atrium side, and between 4 inches and 12 inches (102 mm and 305 > mm) away from the glass and designed so that the entire surface of the > glass is wet upon activation of the sprinkler system without obstruction. > The glass shall be installed in a gasketed frame so that the framing > system deflects without breaking (loading) the glass before the > sprinkler system operates. > > 2. A glass-block wall assembly in accordance with Section > 2110 and having a 3/4-hour fire protection rating. > > 3. The adjacent spaces of any three floors of the atrium shall > not be required to be separated from the atrium where such spaces are > accounted for in the design of the smoke control system. > > Funny how the IBC doesn't mention how many sprinklers are required to > be calculated. Is a calc even necessary or is it implied that you go > to NFPA > 13 for that? > > Best Regards, > Ken Holsopple > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland > Huggins > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 10:57 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Atrium > > proceed with caution least you own the responsibility for something > that might leave a bad taste. This isn’t really defined by NFPA 13 so > what is your basis? The industry use to be (often still is) a little > casual about extending the age old guidance from NFPA 101 allowed ONLY > for atrium glass to any and all glass. Even there it does say the > ENTIRE glass shall be wetted. It was amusing that a couple of cycles > ago NFPA 80A simply required a Water Curtain for exterior exposure > protection. That would work well on > a 4 story structure. 13 refined it’s exposure protection criteria and > part of that was to address run down and associated ledges and mullions. > It allows rather large protrusions but the exposure will be different > than an interior fire (so don’t casual embrace the sizes it states). > The Tyco WS sprinkler is rather particular about mullions too. Sounds > like a common thread not to be lightly ignored. > > So what level of insurance do you have for performing engineering > since it is not prescriptively defined by NFPA 13? If the architect > wants it, let them design/stamp it. > > Roland > > Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering > American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives > Dallas, TX > http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> > > > > > > > On Sep 2, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Gregory Lindholm <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > We have a new school that has a three story atrium, and the > > Architect is > asking for us to protect the third floor glass with sprinklers place a > maximum of 6' on center, and not more than 12" off the glass. > > I originally assumed that we would use the Tyco Window Sprinklers, > > but > the windows on this project has multiple horizontal mullions in the > windows > (4 or 5).lowed with the Tyco heads. > > I was thinking of just deigning it as a Water Curtain, with the > > regular > heads at 6' on center, with 3 gpm per lineal foot. > > Thoughts? > > > > Greg Lindholm > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > kl > > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
