Matthew, Without insulation the distances are 16 to 22. With insulation as Brian said 6 to 12, 1 would be an apparition ;) On Mar 29, 2016 10:20 PM, "Matthew J Willis" <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is not suitability. This is distance from the deck. Plain and simple. > Sounds like there are distances of 1 to who knows. Good job all.. > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Russell & Carol Gregory <[email protected]> > Date: 03/29/2016 8:29 PM (GMT-07:00) > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > > Brian, > I see no reference to the flammability of this spray on insulation. If it > is flammable then the whole question of suitability of sprinklers without > covering the insulation would become the issue. > Regards, > Russell Gregory > Christchurch > New Zealand > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris > Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2016 9:37 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > > Travis- > Yup that about sums it up, I thought I was losing my mind there for a > minute..... > > Brian Harris, CET > BVS Systems Inc. > bvssytemsinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:05 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Tyco Attic Heads > > Brian: > > Your problem has been very clear from the beginning. > > My guess is you would have to drop the main to about 2' below the lowest > point of insulation. Then field cut every sprig. Couple that with a sloping > dry system and you have an installation nightmare. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > "Follow" us on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to MFP Design via: > https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Mar 29, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Brian Harris <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Brad- > > You're missing the point or maybe I haven't explained it clearly which > is entirely probable. The deflector distance is no longer taken from the > roof deck, it has to be taken from the bottom of the insulation. With the > insulation varying greatly in thickness it is damn near impossible to > install the system with some reasonable sense of order. Hence the reason > for "some kind of iso-surface". > > > > Brian Harris, CET > > BVS Systems Inc. > > bvssytemsinc.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > Brad Casterline > > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 1:50 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > > > > In other words, only where the intermediate members exceed 10" depth, > will it Maybe need a shave - a few inches deep by six feet long. > > It is ludicrous to insist on some kind of insulation iso-surface for > things to work right! > >> On Mar 29, 2016 12:28 PM, "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> It would only be a problem if the rafter depth plus gob depth > >> exceeded deflector depth, so you're looking at 16" to 22" (6" > >> variation, like you said). > >> > >> But in that regard, it is not an activation issue, it is only an > >> obstruction issue. > >> Shave it where necessary to not be an obstruction? > >> On Mar 29, 2016 12:07 PM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Brad- > >>> The real issue we're having is the haphazard way the sprayed on > >>> insulation was installed, there's no way to establish minimum & > >>> maximum deflector distances. > >>> > >>> Brian Harris, CET > >>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>> bvssytemsinc.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > >>> Casterline > >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 11:23 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > >>> > >>> Nope. Smoothness above the sprinkler only affects activation times, > >>> and the differences are only a few seconds. > >>> Do you worry if the intermediate framing members are 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, > >>> or > >>> 2x10 (a 6" variation)? Do you worry if they are perpendicular or > >>> parallel to the throw? No, because min deflector distance for > >>> back-to-back at the peak is 16". This is to get the throw beneath > >>> the 'unsmoothness' of the bottom of the deck. > >>> The U.L. tests of Tyco BB heads 'started' with previously listed QR, > >>> EC > >>> heads- only the Deflectors were changed, and the throw patterns at > >>> different pressures were measured. They did that by not changing the > >>> bottom of the deck or changing deflector distance, but by raising > >>> and lowering the Floor :). > >>> > >>> And actually I think a little roughness at the bottom of the deck > >>> might even enhance activation a bit-- but I am certainly no > >>> Sprinkler > >>> Scientist- and the Modeling of BB heads activation and patterns I > >>> have done has been rather coarse, i.e., quick and dirty ;) > >>> > >>> b > >>> On Mar 29, 2016 9:46 AM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I talked with tech support and while he wasn't too concerned about > >>>> the roughness off the insulation he did agree the insulation needs > >>>> to be "shaved" to a uniform depth to assure proper deflector > distances. > >>>> > >>>> Brian Harris, CET > >>>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>>> bvssytemsinc.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > >>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce > >>>> Verhei > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:44 AM > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Subject: Re: Tyco Attic Heads > >>>> > >>>> I like Matt's advice. Tyco may have information from original test > >>> series. > >>>> Sometimes some of conditions are to meet extreme distance or a > >>>> minimum available pressure. > >>>> > >>>> While I'd repeat that Tyco's comments would apply to this > >>>> particular project only, could you post? > >>>> > >>>> Best > >>>> > >>>> Bruce > >>>> > >>>>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 06:41, Matt Grise <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I would call tyco's technical hotline. > >>>>> > >>>>> Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire > >>>>> Protection > >>>>> 130 w 9th Ave. > >>>>> North Kansas City, MO 64116 > >>>>> > >>>>> *Licensed in KS & MO > >>>>> > >>>>> 913.888.0647 ph > >>>>> 913.888.0618 f > >>>>> 913.526.7443 cell > >>>>> www. AFPsprink.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Sprinklerforum > >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > >>>>> Of Brian Harris > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:40 AM > >>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>> Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > >>>>> > >>>>> "bounce..." > >>>>> > >>>>> Brian Harris, CET > >>>>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>>>> bvssytemsinc.com > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Sprinklerforum > >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > >>>>> Of Brian Harris > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:23 AM > >>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>> Subject: Tyco Attic Heads > >>>>> > >>>>> Working on a project that we've installed Tyco attic heads and the > >>>>> GC > >>>> has now gone in and added roughly several inches of spray on > insulation. > >>>> When I say roughly I mean roughly, the depth varies from 6" to 12" > >>>> with no consistency what so ever. I've told them that most of the > >>>> piping will have to be lowered to stay within the required > >>>> clearances but I also think the insulation needs to be "shaved" to > >>>> a smooth consistent finish, obviously that didn't go over so well. > >>>> Since attic heads are considered extended coverage I think it's > >>>> safe to assume they need to be installed per the requirements of > >>>> NFPA as well, under a smooth flat surface. Am I missing something? > >>>>> > >>>>> Brian Harris, CET > >>>>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>>>> Sprinkler Division > >>>>> bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> > >>>>> Phone: 704.896.9989 > >>>>> Fax: 704.896.1935 > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp > >>>>> rin kl er.org _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp > >>>>> rin kl er.org _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp > >>>>> rin > >>>>> kl > >>>>> er.org > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri > >>>> nkl er.org _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri > >>>> nkl > >>>> er.org > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> k ler.org _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> k > >>> ler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
