Well, if you guys say so then fine, I appologize. I just woke up from a nap and, the set-up is still clear-- I just don't think the problem is as dramatic as you guys do. We have not had to wet the underside of the deck since the 'old style' days. So to me it is an obstrution issue, all along the path of the throw. The deflectors are angled and the same angle is good for up to 30 feet of throw. Technically you could chip out enough insulation directly above the heads, say one square foot by whatever depth to get min 16" deflector distance..., could you not?
Or maybey I should go back to bed and wake up as a shoe salesman. Brad On Mar 29, 2016 3:37 PM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> wrote: > Travis- > Yup that about sums it up, I thought I was losing my mind there for a > minute..... > > Brian Harris, CET > BVS Systems Inc. > bvssytemsinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:05 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Tyco Attic Heads > > Brian: > > Your problem has been very clear from the beginning. > > My guess is you would have to drop the main to about 2' below the lowest > point of insulation. Then field cut every sprig. Couple that with a sloping > dry system and you have an installation nightmare. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > "Follow" us on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to MFP Design via: > https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Mar 29, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Brian Harris <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Brad- > > You're missing the point or maybe I haven't explained it clearly which > is entirely probable. The deflector distance is no longer taken from the > roof deck, it has to be taken from the bottom of the insulation. With the > insulation varying greatly in thickness it is damn near impossible to > install the system with some reasonable sense of order. Hence the reason > for "some kind of iso-surface". > > > > Brian Harris, CET > > BVS Systems Inc. > > bvssytemsinc.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > Brad Casterline > > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 1:50 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > > > > In other words, only where the intermediate members exceed 10" depth, > will it Maybe need a shave - a few inches deep by six feet long. > > It is ludicrous to insist on some kind of insulation iso-surface for > things to work right! > >> On Mar 29, 2016 12:28 PM, "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> It would only be a problem if the rafter depth plus gob depth > >> exceeded deflector depth, so you're looking at 16" to 22" (6" > >> variation, like you said). > >> > >> But in that regard, it is not an activation issue, it is only an > >> obstruction issue. > >> Shave it where necessary to not be an obstruction? > >> On Mar 29, 2016 12:07 PM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Brad- > >>> The real issue we're having is the haphazard way the sprayed on > >>> insulation was installed, there's no way to establish minimum & > >>> maximum deflector distances. > >>> > >>> Brian Harris, CET > >>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>> bvssytemsinc.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > >>> Casterline > >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 11:23 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > >>> > >>> Nope. Smoothness above the sprinkler only affects activation times, > >>> and the differences are only a few seconds. > >>> Do you worry if the intermediate framing members are 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, > >>> or > >>> 2x10 (a 6" variation)? Do you worry if they are perpendicular or > >>> parallel to the throw? No, because min deflector distance for > >>> back-to-back at the peak is 16". This is to get the throw beneath > >>> the 'unsmoothness' of the bottom of the deck. > >>> The U.L. tests of Tyco BB heads 'started' with previously listed QR, > >>> EC > >>> heads- only the Deflectors were changed, and the throw patterns at > >>> different pressures were measured. They did that by not changing the > >>> bottom of the deck or changing deflector distance, but by raising > >>> and lowering the Floor :). > >>> > >>> And actually I think a little roughness at the bottom of the deck > >>> might even enhance activation a bit-- but I am certainly no > >>> Sprinkler > >>> Scientist- and the Modeling of BB heads activation and patterns I > >>> have done has been rather coarse, i.e., quick and dirty ;) > >>> > >>> b > >>> On Mar 29, 2016 9:46 AM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I talked with tech support and while he wasn't too concerned about > >>>> the roughness off the insulation he did agree the insulation needs > >>>> to be "shaved" to a uniform depth to assure proper deflector > distances. > >>>> > >>>> Brian Harris, CET > >>>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>>> bvssytemsinc.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > >>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce > >>>> Verhei > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:44 AM > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Subject: Re: Tyco Attic Heads > >>>> > >>>> I like Matt's advice. Tyco may have information from original test > >>> series. > >>>> Sometimes some of conditions are to meet extreme distance or a > >>>> minimum available pressure. > >>>> > >>>> While I'd repeat that Tyco's comments would apply to this > >>>> particular project only, could you post? > >>>> > >>>> Best > >>>> > >>>> Bruce > >>>> > >>>>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 06:41, Matt Grise <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I would call tyco's technical hotline. > >>>>> > >>>>> Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire > >>>>> Protection > >>>>> 130 w 9th Ave. > >>>>> North Kansas City, MO 64116 > >>>>> > >>>>> *Licensed in KS & MO > >>>>> > >>>>> 913.888.0647 ph > >>>>> 913.888.0618 f > >>>>> 913.526.7443 cell > >>>>> www. AFPsprink.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Sprinklerforum > >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > >>>>> Of Brian Harris > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:40 AM > >>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>> Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads > >>>>> > >>>>> "bounce..." > >>>>> > >>>>> Brian Harris, CET > >>>>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>>>> bvssytemsinc.com > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Sprinklerforum > >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > >>>>> Of Brian Harris > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:23 AM > >>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>> Subject: Tyco Attic Heads > >>>>> > >>>>> Working on a project that we've installed Tyco attic heads and the > >>>>> GC > >>>> has now gone in and added roughly several inches of spray on > insulation. > >>>> When I say roughly I mean roughly, the depth varies from 6" to 12" > >>>> with no consistency what so ever. I've told them that most of the > >>>> piping will have to be lowered to stay within the required > >>>> clearances but I also think the insulation needs to be "shaved" to > >>>> a smooth consistent finish, obviously that didn't go over so well. > >>>> Since attic heads are considered extended coverage I think it's > >>>> safe to assume they need to be installed per the requirements of > >>>> NFPA as well, under a smooth flat surface. Am I missing something? > >>>>> > >>>>> Brian Harris, CET > >>>>> BVS Systems Inc. > >>>>> Sprinkler Division > >>>>> bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> > >>>>> Phone: 704.896.9989 > >>>>> Fax: 704.896.1935 > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp > >>>>> rin kl er.org _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp > >>>>> rin kl er.org _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp > >>>>> rin > >>>>> kl > >>>>> er.org > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri > >>>> nkl er.org _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri > >>>> nkl > >>>> er.org > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> k ler.org _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> k > >>> ler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
