I appreciate your patience with me Travis. Now please place your foot on this device and I'll see if we have your size in stock :) On Mar 29, 2016 5:55 PM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'll try one time then give up. > > This was never really about activation times and obstruction issue. You > have a fair bit of flexibility with the attic sprinklers...16-22" down. > > The problem is when you have a varying roof deck, from a design side - for > guys that try to be as correct as possible, it is darn near impossible to > get this correct. Again the only way I can see to fix it from the > descriptions here is hang the main much lower than you would normally for a > system like this and then field cut every sprig so that you are 16-22" > below the insulation at the point the sprinkler is located. That amount of > labor was likely not included in the bid as it is pretty easy for a decent > design guy to hit those sprigs or even not use sprigs if you have a > consistent roof deck. > > The idea of getting the builder to create a fairly smooth deck was a good > idea as it seems that it was just done haphazardly by the insulator. > > Our job is not just about activation times and stuff like that (which is > vitally important). It is also about getting the correct material > fabricated so the fitter can install the system in a timely manner. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > 480-505-9271 > fax: 866-430-6107 > email:[email protected] > > http://www.mfpdesign.com > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack > > On 3/29/2016 3:48 PM, Brad Casterline wrote: > >> Well, if you guys say so then fine, I appologize. >> I just woke up from a nap and, the set-up is still clear-- I just don't >> think the problem is as dramatic as you guys do. >> We have not had to wet the underside of the deck since the 'old style' >> days. So to me it is an obstrution issue, all along the path of the throw. >> The deflectors are angled and the same angle is good for up to 30 feet of >> throw. >> Technically you could chip out enough insulation directly above the heads, >> say one square foot by whatever depth to get min 16" deflector >> distance..., >> could you not? >> >> Or maybey I should go back to bed and wake up as a shoe salesman. >> >> Brad >> On Mar 29, 2016 3:37 PM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Travis- >>> Yup that about sums it up, I thought I was losing my mind there for a >>> minute..... >>> >>> Brian Harris, CET >>> BVS Systems Inc. >>> bvssytemsinc.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:05 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Tyco Attic Heads >>> >>> Brian: >>> >>> Your problem has been very clear from the beginning. >>> >>> My guess is you would have to drop the main to about 2' below the lowest >>> point of insulation. Then field cut every sprig. Couple that with a >>> sloping >>> dry system and you have an installation nightmare. >>> >>> Travis Mack, SET >>> MFP Design, LLC >>> "Follow" us on Facebook: >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>> Send large files to MFP Design via: >>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Brian Harris <[email protected]> >>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Brad- >>>> You're missing the point or maybe I haven't explained it clearly which >>>> >>> is entirely probable. The deflector distance is no longer taken from the >>> roof deck, it has to be taken from the bottom of the insulation. With the >>> insulation varying greatly in thickness it is damn near impossible to >>> install the system with some reasonable sense of order. Hence the reason >>> for "some kind of iso-surface". >>> >>>> Brian Harris, CET >>>> BVS Systems Inc. >>>> bvssytemsinc.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> Brad Casterline >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 1:50 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads >>>> >>>> In other words, only where the intermediate members exceed 10" depth, >>>> >>> will it Maybe need a shave - a few inches deep by six feet long. >>> >>>> It is ludicrous to insist on some kind of insulation iso-surface for >>>> >>> things to work right! >>> >>>> On Mar 29, 2016 12:28 PM, "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> It would only be a problem if the rafter depth plus gob depth >>>>> exceeded deflector depth, so you're looking at 16" to 22" (6" >>>>> variation, like you said). >>>>> >>>>> But in that regard, it is not an activation issue, it is only an >>>>> obstruction issue. >>>>> Shave it where necessary to not be an obstruction? >>>>> On Mar 29, 2016 12:07 PM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Brad- >>>>>> The real issue we're having is the haphazard way the sprayed on >>>>>> insulation was installed, there's no way to establish minimum & >>>>>> maximum deflector distances. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian Harris, CET >>>>>> BVS Systems Inc. >>>>>> bvssytemsinc.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>>>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad >>>>>> Casterline >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 11:23 AM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads >>>>>> >>>>>> Nope. Smoothness above the sprinkler only affects activation times, >>>>>> and the differences are only a few seconds. >>>>>> Do you worry if the intermediate framing members are 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, >>>>>> or >>>>>> 2x10 (a 6" variation)? Do you worry if they are perpendicular or >>>>>> parallel to the throw? No, because min deflector distance for >>>>>> back-to-back at the peak is 16". This is to get the throw beneath >>>>>> the 'unsmoothness' of the bottom of the deck. >>>>>> The U.L. tests of Tyco BB heads 'started' with previously listed QR, >>>>>> EC >>>>>> heads- only the Deflectors were changed, and the throw patterns at >>>>>> different pressures were measured. They did that by not changing the >>>>>> bottom of the deck or changing deflector distance, but by raising >>>>>> and lowering the Floor :). >>>>>> >>>>>> And actually I think a little roughness at the bottom of the deck >>>>>> might even enhance activation a bit-- but I am certainly no >>>>>> Sprinkler >>>>>> Scientist- and the Modeling of BB heads activation and patterns I >>>>>> have done has been rather coarse, i.e., quick and dirty ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> b >>>>>> On Mar 29, 2016 9:46 AM, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I talked with tech support and while he wasn't too concerned about >>>>>>> the roughness off the insulation he did agree the insulation needs >>>>>>> to be "shaved" to a uniform depth to assure proper deflector >>>>>>> >>>>>> distances. >>> >>>> Brian Harris, CET >>>>>>> BVS Systems Inc. >>>>>>> bvssytemsinc.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>>>>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce >>>>>>> Verhei >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:44 AM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tyco Attic Heads >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I like Matt's advice. Tyco may have information from original test >>>>>>> >>>>>> series. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sometimes some of conditions are to meet extreme distance or a >>>>>>> minimum available pressure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While I'd repeat that Tyco's comments would apply to this >>>>>>> particular project only, could you post? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bruce >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 06:41, Matt Grise <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would call tyco's technical hotline. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire >>>>>>>> Protection >>>>>>>> 130 w 9th Ave. >>>>>>>> North Kansas City, MO 64116 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Licensed in KS & MO >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 913.888.0647 ph >>>>>>>> 913.888.0618 f >>>>>>>> 913.526.7443 cell >>>>>>>> www. AFPsprink.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Brian Harris >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:40 AM >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Tyco Attic Heads >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "bounce..." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian Harris, CET >>>>>>>> BVS Systems Inc. >>>>>>>> bvssytemsinc.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Brian Harris >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:23 AM >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Subject: Tyco Attic Heads >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Working on a project that we've installed Tyco attic heads and the >>>>>>>> GC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> has now gone in and added roughly several inches of spray on >>>>>>> >>>>>> insulation. >>> >>>> When I say roughly I mean roughly, the depth varies from 6" to 12" >>>>>>> with no consistency what so ever. I've told them that most of the >>>>>>> piping will have to be lowered to stay within the required >>>>>>> clearances but I also think the insulation needs to be "shaved" to >>>>>>> a smooth consistent finish, obviously that didn't go over so well. >>>>>>> Since attic heads are considered extended coverage I think it's >>>>>>> safe to assume they need to be installed per the requirements of >>>>>>> NFPA as well, under a smooth flat surface. Am I missing something? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian Harris, CET >>>>>>>> BVS Systems Inc. >>>>>>>> Sprinkler Division >>>>>>>> bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> >>>>>>>> Phone: 704.896.9989 >>>>>>>> Fax: 704.896.1935 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp >>>>>>>> rin kl er.org _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp >>>>>>>> rin kl er.org _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp >>>>>>>> rin >>>>>>>> kl >>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri >>>>>>> nkl er.org _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri >>>>>>> nkl >>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>>>> k ler.org _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>>>> k >>>>>> ler.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>> er.org _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>> er.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
