I'm not a fan of PEX but not because IU consider it in itself an inferior product or system. I think PEX gets a bad rap from sprinkies because plumbers can install it, but seriously guys, if residential sprinklers take off plumbers will be our best friends. Then there's the problem that plumbers design and install it, and far too many are unqualified for design. It's plumbing to them (pipe is pipe) and they don't have a clue as to hydraulics and rules. So regulation is the solution. Maybe it makes better designers and maybe not but it allows for meeting requirements and punishments when things aren't kosher. Thirdly there's the I'm old and I don't like new ways syndrome.
On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 3:20 PM, IPA <[email protected]> wrote: > I would have to agree with most of the info presented on the website that > was mentioned.The number one problem with pex in my opinion is the friction > losses due to the smaller ID of the pipe. The ID of pex is generally about > a size smaller than it's nominal size. A lot of plumbers like to use it for > the common supply piping from the meter to the house but sometimes the > stretch is so far (or pressure is so low) that we just can't make it work > so we have to tell them if they want to use it they have to go with 2" but > then the problem is that most of the plumbers out here don't have the > proper tool to work with 2" so it's back to PVC for the supply. > > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> That’s a contractor website quoting Blazemaster promotional materials, so >> the conclusions are … predictable. Spears should be pissed off that this >> company is only touting Blazemaster. >> >> >> >> I end up in these conversations twice a year and for the past 15 years >> I’ve been tacitly branded as a PEX advocate, which is absolutely not the >> case in unconditional terms. I’m a solutions advocate and there’s no good >> reason that I’m aware of to take PEX out of the conversation any more than >> there is for CPVC. Give the designer and installer a palette of options >> and let them decide on a course of action in partnership with their >> client. There are some (like the website linked below) that are clearly on >> the side of CPVC but I know of contractors (several here in CA and please >> keep in mind that there are more sprinklered homes in CA than the entire >> rest of the country combined) who swear by passive purge designs using >> PEX. As an industry, we’ve learned the hard way that there are chemical >> compatibility issues with CPVC and quality control is important with that >> product, particularly storage (no UV) and application of cement. We >> haven’t heard of pandemic problems or failures with PEX yet there’s a >> perception that it’s an inferior product. My point is, let’s be fair and >> factual in this conversation. >> >> >> >> Tom’s post was the best yet, an objective hands-on narrative. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Steve L. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces >> @lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Thomas Watt >> *Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2016 1:53 PM >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Pex >> >> >> >> As much as I dislike CPVC there do appear to be some advantages over PEX. >> http://www.resfire.com/news/10-reasons-why-cpvc-piping-are-preferred.html >> >> >> >> On Sep 30, 2016 4:42 PM, "John Drucker" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Team, >> >> >> >> As an AHJ the number one complaint…..too complicated, costs too much, add >> ons not required by code. So let’s knock it off, KIS….Keep it Simple. >> >> >> >> Like I said, monitored household fire alarm systems installed by alarm >> people are great….but I’ll take an electrician installing hardwired >> interconnected (in 2015 the interconnect can even be wireless !) smoke >> alarms as recognized by the IBC and NFPA-72. >> >> >> >> Remember nothing gets us just that… nothing. >> >> >> >> Yours in Fire Safety, >> >> >> >> John >> >> >> >> John Drucker, CET >> >> Assistant Construction Official >> >> Fire Protection Subcode Official >> >> Electrical Subcode Official >> >> Building Inspector >> >> Borough of Red Bank, NJ >> >> 90 Monmouth Street >> >> Red Bank, New Jersey 07701 >> >> Cel/Text: 732-904-6823 >> >> Email: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces >> @lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Leyton >> *Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2016 4:16 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Pex >> >> >> >> I don’t want to pile on but I think you’re looking at this from a >> somewhat archaic perspective. It’s seems like the UA freaking out 30 >> years ago when open shops came into the mainstream. >> >> >> >> To me, the perfect residential sprinkler system is a branch off of the >> domestic water supply, composed of pipe, fittings, sprinklers and … >> nothing else. A dumb, naked network of piping with nothing else that would >> require maintenance, add cost or potentially encumber the operation of the >> sprinklers in case of fire. In other words, it’s plumbing. Now, I know >> that saying such a thing out loud is heresy in some parts, but that’s what >> it is. INSERT PERIOD HERE. >> >> >> >> DELETE >>> and you can truss it up with a flow switch and a gauge and a >> test and drain if you want, but none of the attachments that you might put >> on a 13D- or IRC-based system will enhance the performance of the system as >> it pertains to controlling a fire to its compartment of origin. >> >> >> >> For the record, I have an old home (old for San Diego, built 1956) that’s >> partially sprinklered. There’s a stand-alone garage that’s protected with >> exposed steel pipe (and ½” SSU’s) that comes off a copper underground feed >> and I’ll be completing the retrofit as part of a remodel and intend to do >> it with PEX. If money wasn’t a consideration for my domestic plumbing, I >> would have to carefully consider the benefits of copper before making that >> decision, but I’m not aware of any. For sake of turning the conversation >> to a more informative tone, what do you perceive the benefits of copper and >> CPVC to be over PEX in domestic and fire protection applications? >> >> >> >> Steve L. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces >> @lists.firesprinkler.org <[email protected]>] >> *On Behalf Of *John Irwin >> *Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2016 12:47 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Pex >> >> >> >> Well the Intent of the original email was actually to educate myself. >> >> >> >> >> >> For 25 years I've been brought up to take pride in the fact that we're >> more than plumbers. I'm not crazy about a fire protection system you can >> buy on Amazon and watch a YouTube video on how to install it. >> >> >> >> Also I consent that it's better to have Pex sprinklers in a single family >> home than to have no sprinklers at all. But it just feels cheap to me. And >> the same goes for the plumbing. >> >> >> >> If money was not a consideration and you were plumbing and sprinklering >> your own home, would you use Pex or copper plumbing and steel sprinkler >> pipe? >> >> >> >> >> >> John Irwin >> >> Critical System Solutions Sprinkler Construction Manager >> >> 813-618-2781 [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and >> punctuation gaffes. >> >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]> >> Date: 9/30/16 3:33 PM (GMT-05:00) >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Pex >> >> No, but I’m a longtime committee member, forum subscriber and >> self-appointed surrogate for George L. Church, the late great Direwolf of >> the Forum. I’m pretty sure it’s not the intent of this list-server to >> host conversations that trash product technologies or widely accepted good >> practices. I’m neither a plumber nor shareholder but have a 15+ year >> awareness of and understanding of the product and I’m acutely in touch with >> the fact that you can’t just “ban” or disparage a product that, in this >> case, arguably has a better service history than steel or CPVC. >> >> >> >> PEX has a limited range of applications and pipe sizes, as well as a >> lower rated working pressure. But it’s easy to install, doesn’t require >> threading, brazing, soldering, cement or any method of fusion to assemble >> and (unlike CPVC) can be tested immediately after installation. I’m >> absolutely NOT advocating for PEX (or CPVC or copper or stainless >> unobtanium for that matter) but before you use slash and burn sales >> tactics, you might want to actually educate yourself about the product and >> its performance history dating back to 1972, if I’m not mistaken. >> >> >> >> The preceding is definitely my opinion only. Happy weekend all, >> >> Steve L. >> >> >> >> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces >> @lists.firesprinkler.org <[email protected]>] >> *On Behalf Of *John Irwin >> *Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2016 11:53 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Pex >> >> >> >> What are you, a plumber? Pex stock holder? =) >> >> >> >> =) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *John Irwin* >> >> Manager – Fire Sprinkler Division >> >> >> *Critical System Solutions, LLC *Cell: 813.618.2781 >> >> Email: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces >> @lists.firesprinkler.org <[email protected]>] >> *On Behalf Of *Steve Leyton >> *Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2016 2:16 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Pex >> >> >> >> John: >> >> I’m definitely NOT the arbiter of taste and protocol for the Forum but >> your premise is – in my humblest of opinions – flawed and contentious. >> What’s the basis for your belief that a combined PEX system is garbage? >> Keeping in mind that manufacturers of UL listed PEX are members in good >> standing of both AFSA and NFSA and their representatives serve on NFPA >> technical committees and the manufacturers/suppliers boards of both trade >> groups … >> >> >> >> Steve L. >> >> >> >> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces >> @lists.firesprinkler.org <[email protected]>] >> *On Behalf Of *John Irwin >> *Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2016 11:07 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Pex >> >> >> >> I need to convince a client that a combined pex system is garbage … and I >> need to do it quickly. Frankly I won’t use it period but other than “it’s >> crap” is there another reason not to use it? >> >> >> >> >> >> *John Irwin* >> >> Manager – Fire Sprinkler Division >> >> >> >> >> *Critical System Solutions, LLC *2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300 >> St. Petersburg, FL 33716 >> Office: 727.209.5122 >> >> Fax: 727.209.5126 >> >> Cell: 813.618.2781 >> >> Email: [email protected] >> >> >> >> [image: CSS Logo] >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum- >> firesprinkler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum- >> firesprinkler.org >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > -- Ron Greenman 4110 Olson Dr., NW Gig Harbor, WA 98335 [email protected] 253.576.9700 The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)
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