Team, As an AHJ the number one complaint…..too complicated, costs too much, add ons not required by code. So let’s knock it off, KIS….Keep it Simple.
Like I said, monitored household fire alarm systems installed by alarm people are great….but I’ll take an electrician installing hardwired interconnected (in 2015 the interconnect can even be wireless !) smoke alarms as recognized by the IBC and NFPA-72. Remember nothing gets us just that… nothing. Yours in Fire Safety, John John Drucker, CET Assistant Construction Official Fire Protection Subcode Official Electrical Subcode Official Building Inspector Borough of Red Bank, NJ 90 Monmouth Street Red Bank, New Jersey 07701 Cel/Text: 732-904-6823 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 4:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Pex I don’t want to pile on but I think you’re looking at this from a somewhat archaic perspective. It’s seems like the UA freaking out 30 years ago when open shops came into the mainstream. To me, the perfect residential sprinkler system is a branch off of the domestic water supply, composed of pipe, fittings, sprinklers and … nothing else. A dumb, naked network of piping with nothing else that would require maintenance, add cost or potentially encumber the operation of the sprinklers in case of fire. In other words, it’s plumbing. Now, I know that saying such a thing out loud is heresy in some parts, but that’s what it is. INSERT PERIOD HERE. DELETE >>> and you can truss it up with a flow switch and a gauge and a test and drain if you want, but none of the attachments that you might put on a 13D- or IRC-based system will enhance the performance of the system as it pertains to controlling a fire to its compartment of origin. For the record, I have an old home (old for San Diego, built 1956) that’s partially sprinklered. There’s a stand-alone garage that’s protected with exposed steel pipe (and ½” SSU’s) that comes off a copper underground feed and I’ll be completing the retrofit as part of a remodel and intend to do it with PEX. If money wasn’t a consideration for my domestic plumbing, I would have to carefully consider the benefits of copper before making that decision, but I’m not aware of any. For sake of turning the conversation to a more informative tone, what do you perceive the benefits of copper and CPVC to be over PEX in domestic and fire protection applications? Steve L. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 12:47 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Pex Well the Intent of the original email was actually to educate myself. For 25 years I've been brought up to take pride in the fact that we're more than plumbers. I'm not crazy about a fire protection system you can buy on Amazon and watch a YouTube video on how to install it. Also I consent that it's better to have Pex sprinklers in a single family home than to have no sprinklers at all. But it just feels cheap to me. And the same goes for the plumbing. If money was not a consideration and you were plumbing and sprinklering your own home, would you use Pex or copper plumbing and steel sprinkler pipe? John Irwin Critical System Solutions Sprinkler Construction Manager 813-618-2781 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and punctuation gaffes. -------- Original message -------- From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: 9/30/16 3:33 PM (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Pex No, but I’m a longtime committee member, forum subscriber and self-appointed surrogate for George L. Church, the late great Direwolf of the Forum. I’m pretty sure it’s not the intent of this list-server to host conversations that trash product technologies or widely accepted good practices. I’m neither a plumber nor shareholder but have a 15+ year awareness of and understanding of the product and I’m acutely in touch with the fact that you can’t just “ban” or disparage a product that, in this case, arguably has a better service history than steel or CPVC. PEX has a limited range of applications and pipe sizes, as well as a lower rated working pressure. But it’s easy to install, doesn’t require threading, brazing, soldering, cement or any method of fusion to assemble and (unlike CPVC) can be tested immediately after installation. I’m absolutely NOT advocating for PEX (or CPVC or copper or stainless unobtanium for that matter) but before you use slash and burn sales tactics, you might want to actually educate yourself about the product and its performance history dating back to 1972, if I’m not mistaken. The preceding is definitely my opinion only. Happy weekend all, Steve L. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 11:53 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Pex What are you, a plumber? Pex stock holder? =) =) John Irwin Manager – Fire Sprinkler Division Critical System Solutions, LLC Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 2:16 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Pex John: I’m definitely NOT the arbiter of taste and protocol for the Forum but your premise is – in my humblest of opinions – flawed and contentious. What’s the basis for your belief that a combined PEX system is garbage? Keeping in mind that manufacturers of UL listed PEX are members in good standing of both AFSA and NFSA and their representatives serve on NFPA technical committees and the manufacturers/suppliers boards of both trade groups … Steve L. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 11:07 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Pex I need to convince a client that a combined pex system is garbage … and I need to do it quickly. Frankly I won’t use it period but other than “it’s crap” is there another reason not to use it? John Irwin Manager – Fire Sprinkler Division Critical System Solutions, LLC 2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300 St. Petersburg, FL 33716 Office: 727.209.5122 Fax: 727.209.5126 Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [CSS Logo]
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