And my experience is that they get filled to the ceiling with crap, the
sprinkler being in a nice hollow in the middle of it all.


Ron Greenman

[email protected]

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner
Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera
director (1942-)


On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 11:00 PM Bruce Verhei <[email protected]> wrote:

> My only comment. In my experience how these closets are going to be built
> often changes three times between pre-app meeting and construction. Often
> method of construction on approved bears no resemblance to actual
> construction. I’d stay flexible.
>
> Best.
>
> Bruce Verhei
>
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 14:39, Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> I agree with Pete. What is the argument against this?
>
>
>
> There would still be sprinklers in the closets, they just wouldn’t be
> included in the calc, right?
>
>
>
> -Kyle M
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [
> mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Pete
> Schwab
> *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2018 2:24 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: Re:ELIMINATION OF SPRINKLERS IN CLOSETS FOR
> HYDRAULIC CALCULATIONS
>
>
>
> I have to disagree with Steve on this one. The closets are less than 55 Sq
> Ft. Since the closet is separated most likely with drywall construction and
> with a 1500 SQ FT design area, I am not at all concerned with a fire
> starting in a closet and growing to the point of overwhelming a system
> designed to 1500 SQ FT.
>
> I would eliminate the sprinklers based on 23.4.4.7.2.
>
> Just my opinion and not that of the NFPA or the SSD Committee.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Leyton
> *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2018 4:51 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* RE: Re:ELIMINATION OF SPRINKLERS IN CLOSETS FOR HYDRAULIC
> CALCULATIONS
>
>
>
> Yeah, already acknowledged that.
>
>
>
> That’s …  not a sprinkler-friendly design, is it?    Architects and
> developers always say, “We don’t need a fire protection consultant, we
> leave that to the installing contractor.”  How are these “closets” built?
> Are they lockers (i.e. fixtures) or are they framed walls?    I’m still not
> seeing how you can leave them out but looking for an angle here …
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [
> mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *
> [email protected]
> *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2018 1:43 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re:ELIMINATION OF SPRINKLERS IN CLOSETS FOR HYDRAULIC
> CALCULATIONS
>
>
>
> Did you read the original email. 10sqft. They are not 10x10. They are 2x5.
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: ELIMINATION OF SPRINKLERS IN CLOSETS FOR HYDRAULIC
> CALCULATIONS
> From: Steve Leyton
> To: [email protected]
> CC:
>
> The math doesn’t add up – how would eliminating sprinklers for four
> 10’x10’ closets save 14 sprinklers in the DA?  Notwithstanding those
> metrics, these are not small clothes closets, they are repositories for
> people’s “stuff”.  You have a prevailing ordinary hazard with accessory
> miscellaneous storage for lack of a better classification.  I respectfully
> disagree that eliminating sprinklers is consistent with the intent of the
> reference section.   100 sq. ft. packed with camping gear and seasonal toys
> is a very different condition from an interior closet that might only be
> 15-25 sq. ft in area.
>
>
>
> Steve Leyton
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [
> mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Nick
> Maneen
> *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2018 9:05 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* RE: ELIMINATION OF SPRINKLERS IN CLOSETS FOR HYDRAULIC
> CALCULATIONS
>
>
>
> If you are using the full design area, that is what that provision is
> for.  I’m referring to 23.4.4.7.2 in the 2016 Edition of NFPA 13.
>
>
>
> *Nick Maneen, SET *
>
> *c* 704.791.7789
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [
> mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Trillium
> Fire Sprinkler Design Inc.
> *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2018 11:48 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* ELIMINATION OF SPRINKLERS IN CLOSETS FOR HYDRAULIC CALCULATIONS
>
>
>
>
>
> I have a 3 story living condo.
>
>
>
> There are 4 units which each have an open parking garage under the 2nd
> floor. Along the back wall are 4 (10sqft ) closets.
>
>
>
> The engineer is asking for a dry system designed to .15/1950.
>
>
>
> Just want to know what everyone's thoughts are about not including the
> sprinklers in these closets. Using the provision 23.4.4.6.2
>
>
>
> It would allow me to eliminate 14 sprinklers from my calculation area.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Troy
>
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