As a developer that has been using Stripes for over 4 years (since 1.3), I truly have nothing but positive things to say about the framework. And I agree with many of the sentiments being expressed (needs better marketing, mostly feature-complete).
Additionally, my organization is exactly the organization that Ross described in his e-mail. We are a 3 person development team that has been using Stripes because it allows us to get things done mostly without getting in the way. I would also like to add that I love the marketing ideas being thrown around. Currently, it seems very difficult for the average developer to contribute to the site in any meaningful way. Any improvements would be welcome. And I would be happy to help with some documentation or articles. That all being said, I have some thoughts on features and releases. While the project is mostly feature-complete, it feels difficult to write extensions that are not hackish. For example, the URL writing has never met my needs for my projects. The default implementation is probably fine for most people but it incredibly difficult to swap it out for something else. I mean, I certainly could use a urlrewrite (and have) but this is ridiculously tedious. I would like to write my own implementation (act a little more like Rails routes) but don't want to recreate the wheel (many methods and classes are private or otherwise). My point is, it is difficult to extend this part of the project. This is also true for tag renderers and validation (integrating JSR-311 is beyond a hack). I think ensuring extension points should be one the major development focuses of the project. It would certainly encourage more extension development. And while I know there hasn't been a releasable version of 1.6 at this point, I believe that Stripes should be releasing regular previews or betas. I feel disinclined to checkout and build the latest version of Stripes and integrate it into one of my projects. However, if previews/betas that were mostly stable were released, I would certainly be inclined to download them. Using Rails terminology, I don't want the edge version but would like the near-edge version. This also has the benefit of showing development activity. Finally, it would be nice to see a true roadmap for the project. I suppose I can go into JIRA and see what is coming. And while I know the project feels feature-complete, there should still be some sort of plan. For me, roadmaps are one of things that help me evaluate a project's liveliness. I know that was a lot but I hope I was not off-base. Regards, Andy Ross Sargant wrote: > I agree with the sentiment that the framework is basically feature > complete. I've been a happy user for 2+ years and for the size and scale > of projects I work on, I'd have to say I have no serious complaints at all. > > I've actually appreciated the fact that stripes is such a limited & > focussed framework and sticks to that. That saves me all the time I'd > normally have to spend learning the latest bells & whistles myself and > passing knowledge on to others on my team. It doesn't make any sense for > stripes to give that virtue up in the hope that the developer activity & > feature bloat associated with that will somehow attract more users. > > My experience with stripes has been that it makes the really tedious > stuff easy but it doesn't lay down so much that you can't freely apply > your own creativity where you want. I think that is ideal and if it > ain't broke, don't fix it. > > So,it would seem to me that its the marketing side that needs more > urgent attention. If the level of activity on the mailing list is at all > indicative of the number of users then clearly there is an issue but for > every 1 person who decides not to use stripes due to its slow release > cycle, there could be 10 people who just don't know about it at all. > > I also agree that this is a very high quality mailing list. I *suspect* > that many on this mailing list hold more senior technical positions in > smaller organizations and used that position to introduce stripes > without having to justify it to a commission. That "demographic" is > probably the best chance for growth and the philosophy behind stripes > really works in that setting. A simple, reliable thing that is easy to > learn and helps you get things done. It might not get you full buzzword > points on your product brochure but you'll definitely sleep well! > > Unfortunately, I'm no marketer but I don't mind lending a hand where I > can :) > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Freddy Daoud <xf2...@fastmail.fm > <mailto:xf2...@fastmail.fm>> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have been thinking about this topic for quite some time now and, > admittedly, have been "avoiding" it.. but now that the discussion has > been sparked, I can't hide my head in the sand anymore. > > I am happy to see the responses to Nikolaos's post. Some very good > points are made. > > Most of these concerns are known to the community, but the problems > remain: > > * the web site is dry and lacks visual appeal. this has been discussed > time and again and we can't find anyone with the artistic talent, the > time, and the will to redesign the site. > > * development is not as active as it used to be. i think the framework > has somewhat peaked because it is, for the most part, > feature-complete. > > * my own involvement in the framework has been reduced to answering > questions on the mailing list. don't get me wrong--i am not claiming > that i was ever one of the main developers. clearly, Tim and Ben are. > But, when I was working on the book, I was also developing > professionally with Stripes, and the two combined made me very > interested in Stripes' features. A few of the tweaks that made it into > the 1.5 release were directly related to writing the book. > > * more on the previous point: I still develop professionally with > Stripes, but have not much interest in any major new features. The > current trunk suits me fine. Any "nice-to-haves" I consider not part > of the core framework, and I put them in Rayures. > > * I fully agree with the full-stack idea. This is what Rayures does. > In one minute, you can set up a Stripes project that is ready to run > with Maven, Tomcat plugin, Spring, Hibernate, JPA, Log4J, and TestNG. > > * about the lack of developer activity: I think we need some new > blood. I can't speak for Ben, but I think it is too much to ask of him > being almost the sole developer. Personally, I gave my all to write > the book, improve the documentation, contribute to the framework when > I could, write articles (e.g. The Server Side), write blog posts, post > links on DZone, get book reviews, promote Stripes on forums.. But now > I am *burnt out*. As I mentioned earlier, I still answer questions on > the mailing list when I can, but other than that, I need to just be a > happy Stripes *user*. > > * more on the previous point: I think there are several people who are > quite skillful, sharp, and competent who would make great developers > for Stripes. I think we need a group of those people to step up and > keep the framework alive. Several names come to mind, but I won't name > them because I don't want to offend anyone by omission, nor do I want > to put anyone on the spot. > > * yes I know it is lame when someone says "I'd like feature X" and the > reply is "ok then why don't you implement it?" but sometimes the > person actually says "I did implement it! can you add my code?" But > the problem remains that someone needs to validate the code, decide if > it belongs in the core (lest we bloat the framework, something we've > been trying to avoid and shoud continue to resist), and so on. This is > the job of a "core" group of developers who have the Stripes > philosophy at heart. Unfortunately, since the departure of Tim, this > core seems to have disintegrated. No disrespect at all to Tim by the > way, he created a truly awesome framework and gave me an awesome topic > to write about. I certainly don't blame him for having moved on. > > Before this post gets too long (too late!) I guess in conclusion, we > all agree that Stripes needs more steam in terms of development, > marketing, spreading the good word, blogging, revamping the site, > developing bells and whistles--extensions that make you go "wow" but > keeping them outside the core. > > Stripes needs more activity. The question is, who is willing to invest > themselves into this goal? Who is willing to take over, for the future > of Stripes? > > If there is enough response, how do we "hand over the reigns"? > > Cheers, > Freddy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: > > Show off your parallel programming skills. > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Stripes-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > > > > > -- > Ross Sargant > Software Engineer > p: 954-623-6015 x2108 > email: rsarg...@tvrc.com <mailto:rsarg...@tvrc.com> > > TVR Communications LLC > 541 S. State Road 7,Suite 5,Margate, Florida,33068 > > http://www.tvrc.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: > > Show off your parallel programming skills. > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: Show off your parallel programming skills. 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