Ronald C.F. Antony wrote:
On 28 Oct 2012, at 22:34, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
When Ambi VLC happens, I predict the re-surrection of UHJ. Simple 2 channels
will remain the most important distribution format in the forseable future.
This is real surround sound? Why not Dolby Surround... :-D
Despite a lot of stupid badmouthing, UHJ works, Dolby Surround does not; and
things like SACD, DVD-Audio etc. have been sunk effectively by the cost of
playback systems and the greed of the record industry which was unable to read
the signs of the times (more things competing for the same little bit of
disposable income) and thus insisted on premium pricing rather than at price
levels that would have pitched the new formats as CD replacements.
As I said countless times before it's about REALISTIC AMBIENCE, I'm not trying to train my sniper rifle on any musician while listening to music, so I could care less if the localization isn't as accurate as some full B-format or HOA recording as compared to the real layout of the people.
I wasn't at the concert, and 99.99% of listeners weren't there either, and nobody knows or cares if the first violin was indeed 2 feet to the left of where we think it is.
What realistic people care about, that there's a distribution channel for
stereo, and that UHJ is stereo compatible, meaning that the audience is bigger,
and the few people who are interested in surround sound actually have a chance
of getting a reasonably sized catalog of stereo recordings that are also
surround compatible; and for the foreseeable future, that's as good as it's
going to get, because the music industry doesn't produce music for less than 1%
of the market.
So you get some stereo compatible music, or you get nothing. Frankly, who cares
about the 3 dozen high-end surround recordings being made? For the most part
they are esoteric pieces, and rarely do they have the type of world-class
musicians that major labels attract, and even if they did, I don't care to
listen to the same 50 recordings over and over again.
Surround sound will not progress as long as the people involved refuse to be part of a
process that on the commercial side takes baby steps, and instead insist on "certain
minimal standards" that constitute too big of a leap of ever being considered by
commercial interests, both in the music industry and in consumer electronics.
Ronald
Ronald, most if not all (classical) recordings where I am participating
are done in a way that they could be issued in 5.1 (or say 5.0)
surround, namely several Pentatone recordings, and even the more recent
television/radio stuff.
I would guess that every good orchestra recording is done in this way
(which means could be issued in "2.0"/stereo, 5.1 or other formats).
My hint to Dolby Surround was ironic (as many guys on this list oppose
anything from Dolby), but you have to admit that there exist many
(matrixed) Dolby surround mixes for film use. (And also and very
obviously discrete 5.1 surround mixes, which are superior.)
UHJ works, but it is also a matrixed format and arguably not a complete
surround format, because 2 cannels are not enough. (I would say 5.1 is
better, this doesn't seem to be an opinion.)
Secondly, the UHJ system should have some issues even in stereo, because
of the matrix.
Write to Apple that they should publish 5.1 (and < maybe > .AMB files
etc.), and forget about old compromises. (You can continue to "promote"
UHJ, but I am sure this won't fly because you say people ideally would
have to record via soundfield mics. If you mix a UHJ recording from spot
mics, you also could mix to 5.1 ...)
Frankly, who cares about the 3 dozen high-end surround recordings being made?
This is exactly the attitude which is the road to nowhere.
There are real progresses in surround sound/audio, a 3D Audio codec
(codecs) should be part of MPEG-H by 2013 or 2014. (At least cinema
use, I gave them my opinion that there should be more areas.)
I wasn't at the concert, and 99.99% of listeners weren't there either, and
nobody knows or cares if the first violin was indeed 2 feet to the left of
where we think it is.
But that is not the point or "sense" of surround. Reveals several wrong
assumptions from your part. (A surround recording can sound way more
realistic than any stereo recording. The question of "exact
localization" within the recording is for musicians - I am one -
probably not the most important issue. It is still utmost important to
have a credible soundstage at all, because it helps to separate
instruments/voices.)
Surround sound will not progress as long as the people involved refuse to be part of a
process that on the commercial side takes baby steps, and instead insist on "certain
minimal standards" that constitute too big of a leap of ever being considered by
commercial interests, both in the music industry and in consumer electronics.
Ronald
As said: 5.1 is completely etablished. And nowadays you could distribute
a file which offers a surround and stereo version combined, provided
your beloved iCompany would offer any surround recordings at all. (In
this sense, I don't see any real compatibility problems. You can
distibute UHJ and hope that some people by the decoders/software
loudspeakers. Or you distribute a combine surround/stereo file, which is
not such an issue at all. And even if not, a surround recording/filecan
be downmixed to 2.0. In fact, POA could be downmixed to UHJ stereo...)
Just a few hints from a person supposedly "refusing to take part", and
actually I am even not insulted by your rhetorical attempts. In a
certain way I do a lot more than Apple, because they do exactly nothing
in this field even if they easily could. If they don't distribute
surround sound, it din't have anything to do with a stereo compatible
format like UHJ which is supposedly surround in two channels and
backward-compatible. You can have a combined surround/stereo version
in other and better ways, as easily shown above. ;-)
Late here, I should stop writing...
Best,
Stefan
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