>Keith: > >They are not my "heroes", actually, Oh. Sorry. You've certainly promoted them here very enthusiastically. When Erik wrote to Boocock and got a reply you were terribly impressed that the great man would deign to respond to the likes of us.
>but I think anyone who has a real >interest in what they have to offer, or what they have accomplished so far, >should simply ask them for an update. Well, Erik didn't get much, just a brush off really, along with some contempt for homebrewers (with which I think you agreed). > Web sites don't always get updated or edited as well as we'd like, as you >and I both know, Links go out of date fast, but it's not a problem keeping a website in order, even a much bigger one that that. It's rather basic if you're out to impress people, which Biox is out to do. But people complain that there's no information there, nothing to back up the claims they make at their website and elsewhere, no analysis of their product to support their claim that it meets ASTM standards, nor that the cetane values are "too high to measure, over 80 at a minimum" (as they told a recent visitor). There's nothing to say that they've ever had it tested, nothing to say that they've ever even produced more than test batches. People read everything at their site and come back to the list saying they're none the wiser. Why are they so secretive? >so it's best to just send off an email and ask. And get the same contemptuous response Erik got? What does this mean Ed, that you also don't know if they've ever produced any product or not? You suggest anyone who has a serious interest in biodiesel production should simply contact Biox. You've compared Biox with well-established technology and found Biox better. Etc etc. All on just PR and hearsay? I agree with Paddy and with Todd. Something doesn't seem to add up with Biox. Since you've been promoting them here so heavily, maybe you should address that. Keith >Ed > > > > > >on 8/25/02 6:12 PM, Keith Addison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >> I would suggest that anyone who has a serious interest in >regional or larger > >> scale biodiesel production simply contact Tim Haig and talk to >him, they are > >> open for business, and happy to discuss with potential plant purchasers > >> possible terms. > >> > >> They are not interested in making biodiesel, AFAIK...they want to sell > >> plants not product. > > > > Your heroes, Ed. They certainly make a lot of claims, some of which > > seem quite wild, and/or contradictory. Reads a lot like poorly edited > > sales talk. Have they actually managed to produce any product yet to > > back up their claims? I mean not test-tubes full, proper production > > that meets ASTM standards, as they claim, at a cost of 8 cents a > > litre (or was that 18 cents a litre)? Do they have any track record > > at all? Or just PR talk and pending patents, which they might not be > > able to patent? > > > > Keith > > > > > > > >> If the process, and the deal struck make sense, go ahead and go at it - > >> regional production with the Biox process plant, that is. > >> > >> I know some will disagree, but I have to say it appears to me that > >> continuous production plants will win out over batch plants. >Continuous and > >> somewhat capital-intensive processes, combined with good and inexpensive > >> transportation systems, have certainly replaced many local small scale > >> operations in many other industries - the question will be scale. At what > >> scale, in Canada/US, with our rail and highway links, will a more costly > >> (financed) continuous plant beat a less expensive (maybe "paid >for and built > >> from surplus bits"), but less efficient, batch plant? > >> We talk "small scale" and "mega"....but there will likely be some regional > >> optimum scale, keeping in mind that "region", in economic geography, is > >> quite a loose and flexible term! > >> > >> > >> Edward Beggs, BES, MSc > >> Neoteric Biofuels Inc. > >> Located in the Okanagan Valley, British Columbia, Canada > >> 1-250-768-3169 Fax: 1-250-768-3118 > >> Toll-Free (Canada/USA): 1-866-768-3169 > >> http://www.biofuels.ca > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> on 8/24/02 10:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >>> The Biox process has some particular advantages that to a large extent > >>> simplify rather than complicate the process. This is described in their > >>> recent press reports. of which the following is one example: > >>> > >>> "This process utilizes a co-solvent; base catalyzed one phase >process. The > >>> advantages presented were those of a continuous process with significant > >>> reduction in process time and the success achieved when using >feedstocks of > >>> high free fatty acid content. The goal of the biox process is to produce > >>> biodiesel from any feedstock at a cost of 15-20 cents/litre (CND)." > >>> > >>> Porcine lipase as a catalyst is readily available and the >co-solvent itself > >>> is not unique. The process, nevertheless, appears unique >enough to merit > >>> claims that the USPTO recognizes as patentable. > >>> > >>> How difficult would it be to invent around this process and/or to improve > >>> upon it? And, if this is not possible, since the process offers unique > >>> advantages, what would a homebrew process look like using some of the > >>> essential Biox process details? > >>> > >>> The US Patent Office encourages the development of new > >> technology, for which > >>> reason they require patent details to be clearly presented; this > >> will enable > >>> others to see whether the technology can be improved. The technique of > >>> "inventing around the patent" to obtain its competitive >advantages is the > >>> first thing a megabusiness often considers, before consideing > >> whether or not > >>> to buy out the competitive patent rights of another patent holder. > >>> Alternatively, there have been instances of a company just usiing the > >>> technology of a patent for their commercial purposes, and say "sue me." > >>> > >>> There appear therefore to be two reasons for looking at thie >Biox patented > >>> technology, first to see if you can invent around the Biox process, and > >>> second to see if the Biox technology can simplify the homebrew process, > >>> without, however, using the technology for commercial purposes. > >> Note that a > >>> patent does not prevent use of the technology exceot for > >> commercial benefit. > >>> > >>> > >>> For the technology to develop into regional-sized businesses > >> rather than into > >>> a mega business, this goal would seem to require, or at least to be > >>> expedited, by developing a patentable positoin and then putting those > >>> proprietary rights into the public domain. Alternatively, a >new business > >>> could be formed, using the technology on a proprietary basis, >but with the > >>> deliberate intent of developing the technology on a regional basis. > >>> > >>> Otherwise, the Biox process, being based upon its own propietary, > >> patentable > >>> position, appears destined, or at least as is their intent, to become a > >>> megabusiness and take over the commercial market, much as Edward Beggs > >>> described in his 8/17 message. . > >>> > >>> Glenn Ellis ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! 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