>Dear Hakan, > >some comments: >I think I was talking about biofuels. >FT-fuels made of biomass is a synthetic fuel made >of biomass via gasification and the >Fischer-Tropsch-synthesis. But it is not ready for >use. >Biogas upgraded to Natural Gas is Natural Gas from > Biogas and it is 100% renewable (biodiesel >mostly is not 100% renewable!!!). Upgrading Biogas >to Natural Gas is ready to use and it is done and >uesd in Sweden and Switzerland. Biogas can use >existing consumer equipment and fit into existing > distribution systems. This could also be a business. >You talk about time spans of 20-40 years. That is >a long time, many things could be developed and >put into use in this time. > >I hope I could clear my points. Also I know that >this forum is very Biodiesel/SVO-sided ;-)
Not so, Daniel, it's very open-ended. All biofuels subjects are discussed here, and many related issues. Keith >Daniel > > >Hakan Falk schrieb: > > Dear Daniel, > > > > The subject was biofuel and I see them as renewable > > biological sources. I was driving Taxis on NG, 40 years > > ago in Sweden, but it is not a biofuel. The country that > > adopted NG the most is probably The Netherlands and > > I have often driven NG fueled cars there. They also have > > resources of natural gas. > > > > Keith initiated a very interesting discussion about > > synthetic fuels and the production of oil from coal. > > All of this are especially interesting for the coal rich > > Germany. It is however not biofuel. I do not think that > > Germany lacks agricultural area, it is a pseudo argument. > > You do not hear this in The Netherlands who have > > most people per square kilometer of the countries in > > the world. > > > > I also had an other restriction that excludes many > > alternative that are possible to develop. That is the > > "ready for use" condition. This means that it could > > be generally implemented in a time span of 20 to > > 40 years. Ethanol and Biodiesel/SVO can use > > existing consumer equipment and fit into existing > > distribution systems. > > > > If you start a business based on biofuel it must be > > possible to sell and use it now. If not, it is not a > > business. In fact, it was a very interesting exercise > > to take that perspective, because it becomes an > > acid test for the "ready for use" perspective. > > > > I have so much that I want to learn and so much > > that I want to communicate. I will continue and > > you will probably find the tings you missed in an > > other piece for our web site. > > > > Hakan > > > > > > At 04:22 PM 12/12/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > > >>Thanks Hakan for this very interesting view on > >>biofuels! > >>But may I give you some impression fo the german > >>point of view? > >>First of all you did not mention Methanol, > >>Fischer-Tropsch-Fuels (FT-fuels) and Biogas. > >>Ethanol is not discussed in Germany probably of > >>the lack of agricultural aera. > >>I will not talk about Methanol because I think it > >>will not have any chance. > >>So what about FT-fuels? This fuel is promoted in > >>Germany by federal institutions and by the > >>automobil industry - namely DC and VW. This > >>medium-term opportunity needs no chances in the > >>motors, it can be made from every organic material > >>but it needs bigger productions sites. On the > >>other hand it is very energy intensive in > >>production and the technology is still in > >>development. Here a big discussion is going on. > >>Biogas also now is in the discussion: cleaned and > >>enriched up to Natural Gas and bringing it to a > >>filling station or feeding it into a gas pipeline > >>may be an interesting thing. This is already done > >>in Sweden and Switzerland. There are cars driving > >>with NG, many new NG filling stations will be > >>built in nearest future, the liberalisation of the > >>EU Gas market is in progress and the technology is > >>available. The fraction of NG cars will increase. > >>Producing electricity from biogas in Germany is > >>economically very interesting because of a refund > >>assured by law. And biogas can be produced in very > >>small units. > >>Biodiesel does not have the best reputation cause > >>of the problems of monocultures. But it takes 0,55 > >>% of the fuel market in Germany. > >>So these are some points what is in the discussion > >>in Germany. But Germany is not the biggest country > >>although it has the most people in the Europe. A > >>unique solution can only be found within Europe, > >>here Ethanol might be leading. > >>Another thing is the opening of the EU towards the > >>east, with it big aeras of land and cheap labor. > >> > >>So, this is a little input - hastily written. > >> > >>Greetings > >> > >>Daniel > >> > >> > >>Hakan Falk schrieb: > >> > >>>Hi Keith and others, > >>> > >>>I am now close to publish, > >>>http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml > >>>I am still insecure about "Ethanol, big or small?" and will probably take > >>>this as a separate issue all together. Politics and perceptions are very > >>>important for a business, so I am not sure yet. Please look at it and give > >>>me your comments, both good and bad. > >>> > >>>Hakan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>********************************************** > >>>If you want to take a look on a project > >>>that is very close to my heart, go to: > >>>http://energysavingnow.com/ > >>>http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card > >>>http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me > >>>http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site > >>>********************************************** > >>>"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to > >>>how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world > >>>being round that agitated people, but that the world > >>>wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has > >>>been sold to the masses over generations, the truth > >>>will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving > >>>lunatic." -- Dresden James > >>> > >>>"No flag is large enough to cover the shame of > >>>killing innocent people" -- Howard Zinn > >>> > >>>"Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. > >>>We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may > >>>wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm > >>>wrinkles the soul." - Unknown > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >>> > >>>Biofuels list archives: > >>>http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >>> > >>>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >>>To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >>Mit freundlichen GrŸ§en > >> > >>Daniel West > >> > >>__________________________________________________________ > >> > >>Zentrum fŸr Sonnenenergie- und > >>Wasserstoff-Forschung (ZSW) > >>Regenerative Kraftstoffe und Verfahren (REG) > >>Center of Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research > >>Renewable Fuels and Processes > >> > >>Netzwerk "Regenerative Kraftstoffe" - ReFuelNet > >> > >>Dipl.-Ing. Daniel West > >> > >>Hessbruehlstra§e 21C, D-70565 Stuttgart > >> > >>Tel.: ++49-711-7870-249 / Fax: -200 > >>eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>http://www.zsw-bw.de > >>http://www.refuelnet.de > >>__________________________________________________________ > >> > >> > >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >>Biofuels list archives: > >>http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >> > >>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >>To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Mit freundlichen GrŸ§en > >Daniel West Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
