robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Robert Mills wrote:
> The electrolysis of water cannot be called a renewable resource simply
> because it is a process used to change a renewable resource called water and
> not within itself a renewable resource.
>
Oh brother, here we go!
Let's take some electric energy generated by concentrated photovoltaics
(made by man and yes, it will wear out and not be renewed by mother nature) and
use the current to electolyze water. ( a process, not a renewable resource)
When we burn the hydrogen produced, it combines with oxygen in the air to
produce water vapor. Water vapor rises into the atmosphere, cools and
condenses on dust forming clouds. When these clouds become heavy enough, the
water falls back to earth as rain. The entire cycle is powered by the sun.
Can you please explain what is NOT renewable about this?
The renewable resource is water and it cannot be returned to hydrogen without
intervention by man. Mother nature will return the water but it is up to man
and a process requiring external energy to make the hydrogen again.
>
> www.genesisworldenergy.com is some designed technology devices wherein water
> is changed to hydrogen and oxygen and used accordingly to make electricity or
> provide gas for gas appliances. It specifically states that it requires the
> constant input of water. It also does not say that the water claimed as the
> exhaust if you will from the process can in itself be reused or must be
> discarded. If it must be discarded, what is wrong with it that it cannot be
> reused again and what environmental problems will occur here?
It's a scam. Hold on to your wallet!
You could well be right on this one!!!
> To further complicate things, I cannot find anywhere whereby the molecule "O"
> lives in nature without it's electron attached to form "O2". This worrys me
> that we may have a uniting of "H2" and "O2" as an exhaust process which is
> "HYDROGEN PEROXIDE" or in other terms more acid rain as a result. I also
> don't know if there are any answers out there as to the environmental
> pollution like photochemical smog that will result when the sun hits this
> product in mass.
Oxygen would much rather combine with two hydrogen atoms than another
oxygen atom. The attraction is irresistible. Burning hydrogen will not
produce hydrogen peroxide.
True as far as it goes; I guess we could wait and see if we all have burning
sinuses, watery eyes and blonde hair before we know for sure.
> The use of hydrogen in an ICE engine creates another problem in as much as
> the 122 cu. ft. standard hydrogen cylinder available from your local welding
> supplier contains the heat value of the hydrogen as 67,000 btu's of heat
> energy. This means that the hydrogen bottle will move the vehicle the same
> distance as 2/3 of one gallon of today's gasoline will take it down the road.
This is why nobody should use such a ridiculous means of hydrogen storage
to power a vehicle! A standard, automotive natural gas tank is the MINIMUM
threshold for range and safety. One such tank would power my four cylinder
Ranger for a little less than 100 kilometers at highway speed. Most natural
gas conversions involve at least two storage tanks.
Is hydrogen and natural gas, methane, really that far apart?
If you are using the standard 1000 btu cu.ft. natural gas, you are using the
same storage pressure, 2,200 psig,.The safety hazards would be pretty much the
same assuming your intention was problems involving accidents, etc. The energy
difference, 122,000 btu per tank full for natural gas vs 67,000 btu's for
hydrogen are not really that far apart. Your 100 kilometers, (55 miles), would
stretch about 40% more per tank full of energy.
There would be an energy advantage in as much as fueling the tank would take
the same energy to pump it up but would deliver more energy output for the same
energy input because of the btu difference of the fuel. Cost of the fuel itself
could make quite a difference here as well.
The only time I ever drive more than 100 kilometers in a single day is when
I'm visiting my in-laws (once or twice every 90 days), or taking a trip. The
vast majority of my driving involves distances well within the range of a
single tank. This is why EVs are more practical than most people think. We
have a mentality that insists we MUST have 500 kilometers of range before an
alternative fuel becomes viable. For most of us, this simply isn't true.
Besides, a hydrogen conversion would most likely be dual fuel, so the range
issue isn't really an
issue.
> On the brighter side, I see news out there that someone has perfected a solar
> cell that will take advantage of more of the light spectrum in the conversion
> of sunlight to electricity.
Don't hold your breath for this!
> This holds promise that we may well get solar cells all over our car that
> will supply sufficient electricity to keep our vehicle moving down the road
> with smaller battery packs and therefore less problems with batterys as a
> result which will do a lot for the dark side of the electric vehicle with
> it's battery replacement problems and costs that have been there in the past.
There's simply too little area on the average automobile for this to EVER
be a practical solution. We're stuck with storage.
We also said this back in the days of the vacuum tube before we invented the
transistor . .oops, I think I just told my age here.
robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782
To all;
Do not hold back on your opinions in these discussions. Just think back to some
past date when someone told you something that you didn't know and you were so
surprised that you commented; Boy, I would never have thought of that, what an
idea!! Off we go with another path that may well lead to a new idea, process,
or outright discovery. The big boys call them a "THINK TANK"........We can do
it too.......
Bob
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