The electrolysis of water cannot be called a renewable resource simply because it is a process used to change a renewable resource called water and not within itself a renewable resource. www.genesisworldenergy.com is some designed technology devices wherein water is changed to hydrogen and oxygen and used accordingly to make electricity or provide gas for gas appliances. It specifically states that it requires the constant input of water. It also does not say that the water claimed as the exhaust if you will from the process can in itself be reused or must be discarded. If it must be discarded, what is wrong with it that it cannot be reused again and what environmental problems will occur here? To further complicate things, I cannot find anywhere whereby the molecule "O" lives in nature without it's electron attached to form "O2". This worrys me that we may have a uniting of "H2" and "O2" as an exhaust process which is "HYDROGEN PEROXIDE" or in other terms more acid rain as a result. I also don't know if there are any answers out there as to the environmental pollution like photochemical smog that will result when the sun hits this product in mass. The use of hydrogen in an ICE engine creates another problem in as much as the 122 cu. ft. standard hydrogen cylinder available from your local welding supplier contains the heat value of the hydrogen as 67,000 btu's of heat energy. This means that the hydrogen bottle will move the vehicle the same distance as 2/3 of one gallon of today's gasoline will take it down the road. Obviously, more work needs to be done or more answers must be forthcoming. Sorry to put this out like this but this is the problems as I see them and the questions that I ask and so far find no answers for. On the brighter side, I see news out there that someone has perfected a solar cell that will take advantage of more of the light spectrum in the conversion of sunlight to electricity. This holds promise that we may well get solar cells all over our car that will supply sufficient electricity to keep our vehicle moving down the road with smaller battery packs and therefore less problems with batterys as a result which will do a lot for the dark side of the electric vehicle with it's battery replacement problems and costs that have been there in the past. As usual, the more people involved in the process, the better and faster the desired results will be obtained in both the electric generation from the sun and the hydrogen energy source. Who knows, we may well have 10 new options available in a few weeks. Bob
Dr Alan Greenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What do you think of www.genesisworldenergy.com ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work". > This is quite interesting to say the least. > > >Here is what you said: > > > >"...To make 10 kW of Hydrogen from renewable source like electrolysis of > >water, > >you need 9 kW of electricity...." > > Please define a renewable resource called "electrolysis of water". I am unable to determine this as a renewable anything. > > I think we are having a ball arguing over the same thing that is being defined here, "NOTHING"!! > > Let's produce some viable options that will help the cause of what we are all trying to accomplish, alternative energy solutions. > > Bob > > > > > > > > MM, > > So this is the only correct definition, > > Power is kW(s) per second and energy is kWh per hour? > > Anything else is absolutely wrong? > > cannot energy be kWm per minute? > > The only defined is power Watt/second, if we keep to Watt. > > If I want to specify energy, I could do it in kWyear or any defined time > period. > Who is saying that I cannot do that? > > So talking about power in kWh is absolutely and definitely wrong, because > we have an exact definition on this. > > Energy is power multiplied by time, but we have no exact definition on what > time period to use, other than it must be a multiple related to seconds. > > So tell me what is wrong in my statement. I was told in an earlier posting > that it should be the other way around. You put in 10 kW(whatevertime) and > got out 9 kW(whatevertime) Hydrogen. My answer on this was that I have > seen these numbers also, but wanted to take the most positive numbers that > I have seen. This to avoid accusations of being overly negative. If you can > point > me to information on better numbers in practical situations, I will be true > to my > statement and use them. It has also been pointed out in a posting that the > theoretical limit without any losses is an efficiency of 33.33%. > > I do not necessary want to make anything worse or better than it is. > > Hakan > > > At 05:26 PM 6/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >>Second: Your figures are in power instead of energy. You have quoted kW > > >>instead > > >>of kWh. > > > > > >I have done a mathematically correct simplification. The time factor can > > >and should > > >be excluded, if it is the same. You will have a hard time with me, if you > > >argue this. > > > >Here is what you said: > > > >"...To make 10 kW of Hydrogen from renewable source like electrolysis of > >water, > >you need 9 kW of electricity...." > > > >I don't want a hard time with anyone, but your statement is either physically > >impossible or in the wrong units or both (I vote for "both"). You have not > >addressed that, despite your responses. Never mind time factors, Hydrogen > >storage, whatever. Your statement is just plain wrong, as best I can tell. > > > >MM > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! 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