Hello Brian >As usual, there is more to the story than just my mind has been able >to imagine on its own.
Yes, as usual - I suppose we all say that (or should). But Brian, why leave your mind to imagine on its own? Join and share with others, as you said in another message about bartering knowledge and skills in learning about biofuels. With this particular subject, in its very many facets, there's a tremendous heritage and tradition to gain from and a great deal of excellent work done in the last 80 years or so on top of that, ongoing. Many, many people are working on this, they (we) have good networks, and I'm quite sure that includes imaginative minds near you. >I have been thinking a great deal lately >about self sufficiency, and taking baby steps toward same. A distinction is made between self-sufficiency and self-reliance. It's perhaps a little concocted but I think it's useful anyway. "Community self-reliance" is a commonly used term and it's much more forgiving. With self-sufficiency, you'd not only have to make your own biodiesel but your own soap too. With self-reliance, maybe one household which had something to do with catering would supply the WVO, another would make biodiesel, a third would make soap, and they'd share the results, making all three much more efficient than if they each had to do all three of those things. You see the principle. >One of >the factors in my interest in biofuels. That's also how we see biofuels, as one factor. Biofuels is not our main interest at Journey to Forever - important, yes, but we don't think it's the most important part of our project, just a part. You might care to have a look at the Small Farms section of our website, and the Small Farms online library, and also the Appropriate Technology section. http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html Small farms: Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html Small Farms Library - Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/at.html Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever >In this, like everything >else in life, what I am learning is that there is always more to >learn. :-) Around when my contemporaries started turning 50 I heard quite a lot of them saying things like that (including me), sometimes with some dismay: "The more I learn the less I know!" I suppose Buckminster Fuller got it right (as usual): "The more we learn the more we realize how little we know." No need for dismay. Regard Keith >Brian >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Brian > > > > >I do have a problem with one point made in this interview. He >uses > > >Iowa agriculture destroying natural habitats as an argument that > > >vegetarians are actually more cruel to animals than carnivores. > > > > He uses industrialised agriculture as his example far too often, >and > > as a result his entire structure is built on sand. Industrialised > > agriculture is a very recent and aberrational phase that will soon > > pass, hardly a basis for considering the whole 10,000 years of > > agricultural history, along with civilization, the future, and all > > the fish. > > > > >If > > >I remember correctly, about 80% of the corn raised in Iowa goes to > > >feed cattle. > > > > There are some interesting figures here: > > US grain exports > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_food.html#grainexports > > > > Actually the whole page is interesting. > > > > >Direct consumption by humans would be much more > > >efficient, meaning less demand and therefore less need to destroy > > >natural habitats. I am primarily vegetarian on these grounds > > >exactly, not due to some concern about harming animals. It's >simply > > >more efficient for me to digest plant products myself than to >allow > > >some animal to do it for me and then consume the animal. > > > > Trouble is, the real problem of agriculture is over-production. > > There's no shortage of food in the world, a billion-odd people >don't > > go hungry because there isn't enough food, there's more than >enough, > > more than there's ever been, per capita. So growing more food to >feed > > the hungry not only isn't the answer to the problem, but almost > > invariably leads to more starvation (eg the so-called "Green > > Revolution"). > > > > Forget about the "modern" specialised farms where one farm grows > > grain and another farm raises beef and so on. That's not farming > > (husbandry), it's extraction (like mining). Sustainably, you need >to > > have it all going on on the same farm. When properly managed, > > integrated, mixed farms are indefinitely sustainable, with low >input, > > high output and high quality. (And low to zero fossil-fuel >inputs.) > > Fertility maintenance procedures on such farms are very well > > established. The basic principle of it is that, as always in >nature, > > it requires both plants and animals. Soil fertility cannot be > > maintained without animals - some portion of what's returned to >the > > soil has to pass through the gut of animals, preferably more than >one > > species. Ideally it take all of them, cattle, sheep, pigs and > > poultry. If you're doing that well you can have a highly efficient > > operation that's kind to everything - the soil, the water, the > > plants, the livestock, the local biodiversity, the farmer, his > > pocket, his family, their health, the local community, the nation, > > the world, all the fish too, and everything but ADM and >ExxonMobil. > > (Which is the problem - we only forego all these things for the >sakes > > of the likes of ADM and ExxonMobil.) > > > > Without the animals, the whole thing is going to wind down sooner >or > > later, probably sooner, unless you're to rely on ever higher >levels > > of off-farm chemical fertilizer inputs, in which case the whole >thing > > is going to wind down sooner or later anyway, but with a lot more > > pollution and leaving a wreck that will be much harder to restore >to > > life. > > > > So I'd agree the animals are all wrong in the current set-up, but > > then so is everything else. Getting rid of the animals is not the > > answer, the whole thing has to be ditched, and will be, whether by > > choice or not remains to be seen. Sounds a bit like fossil-fuels >and > > biofuels eh? Food and fuel issues share a lot of common ground . > > > > Best > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > >Brian > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Interview with Manning, follow-on to his previous article in > > >Harpers. > > >them worse. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
