What I have enjoyed most so far about being in this group is the presentation of ideas that go beyond what I am able to imagine on my own. I've not found the people in my local community that spend their time considering these things. I know that they're out there, I just haven't figured out where to look for them yet.
I hope to strive toward self sufficiency, in a community which is self reliant. As others have pointed out, finding others in the community to participate in this type of scheme is not always easy. I once lived among such people, but as we have grown older we have also grown apart, each going our separate ways. Regrettable, but seemingly a normal part of life (people pairing off, raising families, moving out of the area...). I feel like I'm being a bit disorganized in my thoughts here. Hope people don't get too lost trying to follow. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Brian > > >As usual, there is more to the story than just my mind has been able > >to imagine on its own. > > Yes, as usual - I suppose we all say that (or should). But Brian, why > leave your mind to imagine on its own? Join and share with others, as > you said in another message about bartering knowledge and skills in > learning about biofuels. With this particular subject, in its very > many facets, there's a tremendous heritage and tradition to gain from > and a great deal of excellent work done in the last 80 years or so on > top of that, ongoing. Many, many people are working on this, they > (we) have good networks, and I'm quite sure that includes imaginative > minds near you. > > >I have been thinking a great deal lately > >about self sufficiency, and taking baby steps toward same. > > A distinction is made between self-sufficiency and self-reliance. > It's perhaps a little concocted but I think it's useful anyway. > "Community self-reliance" is a commonly used term and it's much more > forgiving. With self-sufficiency, you'd not only have to make your > own biodiesel but your own soap too. With self-reliance, maybe one > household which had something to do with catering would supply the > WVO, another would make biodiesel, a third would make soap, and > they'd share the results, making all three much more efficient than > if they each had to do all three of those things. You see the > principle. > > >One of > >the factors in my interest in biofuels. > > That's also how we see biofuels, as one factor. Biofuels is not our > main interest at Journey to Forever - important, yes, but we don't > think it's the most important part of our project, just a part. > > You might care to have a look at the Small Farms section of our > website, and the Small Farms online library, and also the Appropriate > Technology section. > > http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html > Small farms: Journey to Forever > > http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html > Small Farms Library - Journey to Forever > > http://journeytoforever.org/at.html > Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever > > >In this, like everything > >else in life, what I am learning is that there is always more to > >learn. > > :-) Around when my contemporaries started turning 50 I heard quite a > lot of them saying things like that (including me), sometimes with > some dismay: "The more I learn the less I know!" I suppose > Buckminster Fuller got it right (as usual): "The more we learn the > more we realize how little we know." No need for dismay. > > Regard > > Keith > > > > >Brian > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hello Brian > > > > > > >I do have a problem with one point made in this interview. He > >uses > > > >Iowa agriculture destroying natural habitats as an argument that > > > >vegetarians are actually more cruel to animals than carnivores. > > > > > > He uses industrialised agriculture as his example far too often, > >and > > > as a result his entire structure is built on sand. Industrialised > > > agriculture is a very recent and aberrational phase that will soon > > > pass, hardly a basis for considering the whole 10,000 years of > > > agricultural history, along with civilization, the future, and all > > > the fish. > > > > > > >If > > > >I remember correctly, about 80% of the corn raised in Iowa goes to > > > >feed cattle. > > > > > > There are some interesting figures here: > > > US grain exports > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_food.html#grainexports > > > > > > Actually the whole page is interesting. > > > > > > >Direct consumption by humans would be much more > > > >efficient, meaning less demand and therefore less need to destroy > > > >natural habitats. I am primarily vegetarian on these grounds > > > >exactly, not due to some concern about harming animals. It's > >simply > > > >more efficient for me to digest plant products myself than to > >allow > > > >some animal to do it for me and then consume the animal. > > > > > > Trouble is, the real problem of agriculture is over-production. > > > There's no shortage of food in the world, a billion-odd people > >don't > > > go hungry because there isn't enough food, there's more than > >enough, > > > more than there's ever been, per capita. So growing more food to > >feed > > > the hungry not only isn't the answer to the problem, but almost > > > invariably leads to more starvation (eg the so-called "Green > > > Revolution"). > > > > > > Forget about the "modern" specialised farms where one farm grows > > > grain and another farm raises beef and so on. That's not farming > > > (husbandry), it's extraction (like mining). Sustainably, you need > >to > > > have it all going on on the same farm. When properly managed, > > > integrated, mixed farms are indefinitely sustainable, with low > >input, > > > high output and high quality. (And low to zero fossil-fuel > >inputs.) > > > Fertility maintenance procedures on such farms are very well > > > established. The basic principle of it is that, as always in > >nature, > > > it requires both plants and animals. Soil fertility cannot be > > > maintained without animals - some portion of what's returned to > >the > > > soil has to pass through the gut of animals, preferably more than > >one > > > species. Ideally it take all of them, cattle, sheep, pigs and > > > poultry. If you're doing that well you can have a highly efficient > > > operation that's kind to everything - the soil, the water, the > > > plants, the livestock, the local biodiversity, the farmer, his > > > pocket, his family, their health, the local community, the nation, > > > the world, all the fish too, and everything but ADM and > >ExxonMobil. > > > (Which is the problem - we only forego all these things for the > >sakes > > > of the likes of ADM and ExxonMobil.) > > > > > > Without the animals, the whole thing is going to wind down sooner > >or > > > later, probably sooner, unless you're to rely on ever higher > >levels > > > of off-farm chemical fertilizer inputs, in which case the whole > >thing > > > is going to wind down sooner or later anyway, but with a lot more > > > pollution and leaving a wreck that will be much harder to restore > >to > > > life. > > > > > > So I'd agree the animals are all wrong in the current set-up, but > > > then so is everything else. Getting rid of the animals is not the > > > answer, the whole thing has to be ditched, and will be, whether by > > > choice or not remains to be seen. Sounds a bit like fossil- fuels > >and > > > biofuels eh? Food and fuel issues share a lot of common ground . > > > > > > Best > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > >Brian > > > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Interview with Manning, follow-on to his previous article in > > > >Harpers. > > > >them worse. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. 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