One of the nice things about diesel fuel is it doesn't burn very well
unless under high compression making it very safe compared to gasoline.
I would assume biodiesel would have the same properties. Also Diesel is
an oil rather then a solvent which is why diesel engines last a lot longer.
- bfn - JAW
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>Thank you very much for your response Arlos. I'm new to the biofuel
>>>"scene" and I find it quite disturbing that fire suppression and
>>>avoidance isn't more talked about.
>>
>>Fire risk is a major reason for the emphasis on closed processors,
>>also on TEFC pumps and stirrer motors. See:
>>
>>Hazards
>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#haz
>>
>>Best
>>
>>Keith
>>Is this even much of a concern with storing biodiesel? I know that
>
> methanlo and methoxide are highly flammable, but as Arlos said, you need
> to bring a chemical up to its flashpoint to burn it, with biodiesel this
> is more than 300*F isn't it? You'd have ahrd time getting that kind of
> a temp in your yard or garage. The only way I see that you could
> actually have aproblem is if you ahd a small fire, say an electric fire
> or trash fire and it involved some other materials and stared licking at
> your tank. In that case it would burn very hot and would be hard to
> extinguish. I did a similar experiment with WVO last fall. I was
> building a fire in my fire pit with my brother and a friend of mine. We
> tried to light the WVO directly with a match, even with a burning stick,
> no luck, but when the fire got up to temp. it started burning the WVO
> that had spilled on the pebbles. It burned very hot and even
> explosively until all the oil was consumed. So I think it would
> probably be wise to find out what the fire marshall has to say about
> storage opf biodiesel or even fossil diesel. There has to be some good
> way to put this type of fire out. Most importantly, it would seem like,
> we should keep all fuels, biofuels or otherwise away from all possible
> sources of ignition.
>
>>>Again I really appreciate your response. I didn't figure that I
>>>would get more then a few lines from a couple of different people on
>>>this subject.
>>>
>>>--adam
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Arlos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:21 AM
>>>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression
>>>
>>>
>>>Adam,
>>>
>>>Do a search for MSDS (Material Safety and Data Sheet) This will list the
>>>flash point vapor pressure, and recommended fire suppression media. In
>>>the case of one MSDS, it was noted that foam (AFFF), dry chemical and
>>>CO2 were recommended.
>>> As a former fire fighter, you have to have enough fire suppression
>>>material on hand but the best advice, is get out and call 911 because no
>>>amount of material wealth is worth losing your life over fighting a
>>>fire. If you store your finish product in a steel drum, that needs to
>>>have a bonded ground connection. Static protection is a good idea anyway
>>>with working around the storage or making of bio-diesel. If your 200 L
>>>is stored with a fire resistant lid (hopefully) then the next problem is
>>>storage in an area where there is a source of combustion (other
>>>flammables, ignition source point such as hot work equipment like
>>>welding, drill motors, grinding equipment. Have a fire resistant oily
>>>rag can with a spring lid.
>>> Answering exactly how much fire fighting media is need depends on
>>>several points. Did a fire occur when the 200 L has spilled and has
>>>involved other types of combustibles as in a wooded floor, out door near
>>>dry grass or brush, curtains, furnishing, paper. Is the weather a factor
>>>such as wind, humidity and temp. Is your fire contained within a drum
>>>only? Is it in an enclosed area, open area outdoor, under an overhang,
>>>under a tree? In the best case, you can extinguish a self contained
>>>fire by placing a lid on the container. Gas and petroleum fires are
>>>fought by containing the source and laying on a blanket of oxygen
>>>reducing foam Small multi class fire extinguishers have a limited amount
>>>of material and should be checked annually as some dry chemicals will
>>>cake during long storage they are not a good choice outdoors as the
>>>wrong use can actually spread flames.One of the first things a fire
>>>fighter learns is the term, "Put the wet stuff on the red stuff.". Water
>>>is the number one choice for firefighting because it's cheap, available
>>>and easy to transport. Water may or may not be a good choice because it
>>>can actually help to spread flames. Water is used to cool a fire below
>>>the flash point. Remember only a gas burns, not a liquid or a solid.
>>>Only when a material is heated will it release a gas that actually
>>>burns, not the material. This is the same for fluids. A garden hose will
>>>deliver between 3-7 gallons per minute which is just enough to push a
>>>good fire around, not put it out, Foams are mixed with water because
>>>they will blanket the fuel and cool the flash point. There are several
>>>commercial systems like Ansel available if you store fuel in a secure
>>>area. The most serious consideration in a bio-diesel fire are the by-
>>>products of combustion. This has to be considered. In an enclosed area
>>>the rapid lack of available breathable air is the single biggest factor
>>>in your survival during a fire. People generally succumb to respiration
>>>issues due to toxic substances.
>>> The best thing to do is have a plan, including the layout of your
>>>storage area, utility shut offs, evacuation route, first aid kit. Your
>>>fire may happen in the middle of the night and the fire dept needs to
>>>know where you've stored it if it is in a building. You won't be doing
>>>your best thinking at 3AM so be prepared. Also have a spill kit to
>>>contain and absorb any spills to aid in preventing a larger fire
>>>potential. Run through a fire drill several times and make sure others
>>>beside you know exactly what you're up to out in the garage at night
>>>brewing bio-diesel. The 5 P's save lives-Proper Planning Prevents Poor
>>>Performance.. Ok so this sounds like preaching but if you've ever seen
>>>someone terribly burned in a fire, you'd understand.. One last thing..
>>>don't be a dead hero, call the fire dept in the event of a fire.. If
>>>fact pre-empt them and call and ask the same question, How do I fight a
>>>bio-diesel fire. They are not there to shut down your operation but
>>>would be helpful in setting up a safety program for you.
>>>
>>>Arlos
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Hunt, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 2:11 AM
>>>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression
>>>
>>>What is the recommended fire suppressant for diesel fires? I am
>>>thinking about what type of safety system would be used around a >200L
>>>batch processor.
>>>
>>>--adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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