Greetings all,
If nothing else, well said! There is much we do not know about magnetism in
general. I am facinated by the life of Nicola Tesla. He seems far ahead of
his time. When something goes against what many of us have been taught and
accept as truth we often react critically. As a scientist I accept this
criticism even when harse as relatively benign. It«s part of the scientific
process. We in science do not really prove anything. We rather good at
disproving things. But no scientist worth his salt will give you anything
more than a probability that something is the truth. I appreciate your input
but with this, as the saying goes, I«m from Missouri I have to be shown.
Thanks,
Tom Irwin
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Mindock
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 1/04/05 5:10
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
To All,
I must say first of all that I was only acting as the bearer of the
information. I also did
not say that I believed it was real, only that I hoped that it was.
Anything
wrong with
that? If you read the Lutec website you will see that they do not want
your
money, even if you
offered it to them. (My friend Renee has known co-inventor John since
the
early 80's when he was
working on this device. She later lost contact with him when he moved to
Santa Cruz.
She was surprised, relieved, and very happy to see that John might have
finally got the
device to work.)
Now for Michael's point that no energy is produced since force x
distance =
energy.
I don't know, but if the magnet is counteracting the force of gravity,
it
seems that something
energetic must be doing this. Let's do a mental experiment. Suppose that
a
steel bearing is
precisely balancing the force of gravity so that the bearing is
suspended in
space. Now let's
introduce a very small magnet next to the bigger one that holding the
bearing suspended.
What will happen? The bearing will rise against the force of gravity
until
it contacts the magnet.
Work was done, obviously. But now the magnet is not doing classical work
since the bearing is in contact
with it. No movement implies no energy expenditure. Only potential
energy
remains. The inventors
compare this situation to one using an electromagnet. If an
electromagnet is
used you must pump current through the coil
winding to make the magnetic force arise. To hold the bearing in place
against the force of gravity you must expend energy
to hold the bearing. Energy is used up as the current goes through the
windings. The magnet does this for "free".
That's their argument. Is it sound? Well, if the windings and source had
zero resistance, the loss would be zero, and
it too would be "free". So it doesn't seem to be a valid argument. Maybe
they were using baby talk to
explain a complex idea? But by simplifying they missed the mark. It
could be
that this device is
working in spite of an imperfect knowledge, by the inventors, of it.
Inventors do a huge amount of trial
and error steps as they try to perfect their concept. And most are not
PhD's
in quantum physics.
WRT the patent, it is always safer to make the lesser claim. I think
that's what they did. In a field
as controversial as this, it is the pragmatic thing to do.
It could be that the device is working but the reasons given are not
the
actual ones. It could be because
of some unknown reaction. The bottom line to me is the measurements. If
the
energy output is greater than
the energy input then it's "working". It is very nice indeed though to
know
how/why the device is doing
what it's doing. It might take a lot of lab analysis to get to that
point. I
would hope that some top flight
lab is doing this kind of work on the Lutec device. (and others, but
let's
leave them aside).
As I implied from my original message, I HOPE the Lutec device is
real.
I won't bet $1000 on it, for sure!
Maybe $1.
If it isn't the one we're all waiting for, from what I have read by some
very smart people, it is only a matter of time before the Casimir Force
and
what it represents, really is harnessed, now that it's existence is
proven.
These physicists subject themselves to the disdain of their peers but
nevertheless forge ahead. We should all be thankful that such people
exist. In the past, all inventors/researchers of really new technology
were
ridiculed, some were even jailed or worse. (Big Oil
must be very fearful that this technology gets out without their total
control of it.)
Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. I don't consider this subject to be
spam.
It is about energy and that's what biofuel is.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Nehring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
> Hi,
> I've been on the list for a couple months now, reading happily, but
have
> yet to post anything. So first, hi everyone:-).
> Internet scams or jokes are among my favorites, just because sometimes
> they're so funny and sometimes they're just so clever. I have to admit
> that this is pretty clever. First, there is reference to a US Patent
> application on their website. After do a little searching, I found a
> patent (granted) as described by them. US Patent number 6,630,806
> viewable at:
>
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL
&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,630,806.WKU.&OS=PN/6,630,
806&RS=PN/6,630,806
>
> (Here one can note the inefficiency of the US patent office, since the
> website address includes the patent number 3 times, where one time
would
> have sufficed).
> However, the patent is not for an unlimited energy machine, but rather
> "[t]he present invention is aimed at providing an improved rotary
device
> which operates with improved efficiency compared to conventional
rotary
> devices."
>
> So it seems they just invented a smoother motor, perhaps.
>
> Basically their claim says that they will extract the stored energy
from
> perminant magnets. I invite those who believe that claim to read:
> http://phact.org/e/z/freewire.htm
>
> The most important point is:
> Point 1. Under ideal conditions the electrical power output generated
> when you
> move a conductor through a magnetic field is exactly equal to the
> mechanical power
> input needed to move the conductor.
>
> A more complete debunking can be found here:
> http://www.phact.org/e/z/lutec.pdf
>
> So if you happen to be someone who's looking to invest in green
projects,
> don't give these people a cent (or whatever the lowest value of your
own
> currency may be).
>
> Just one quote from the second debunking article which I find really
good:
> "Where do the inventors think the energy is coming from? Their
response to
> this article claims that a permanent magnet holding up a heavy iron
object
> for a long time is doing work, ie supplying energy. We point out that
the
> formula for work is the force acting multiplied by the distance moved,
> thus zero movement gives zero energy."
>
> Ok, I hope that wasn't all too long.
>
> Have a nice day everyone,
> -Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:45 AM
> Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
>
>
> This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in
Australia
> where Lutec Pty Ltd is located, and then
> to all countries where licensing is completed. This device can furnish
the
> all the electricity
> needed by the average home and runs on battery power. It produces 15
times
> more energy
> than it uses from the battery input. It's installed in the home where
it's
> to be used.
> See their website at: www.lutec.com.au It appears to be the real deal.
> Let's hope it is.
> Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. It is interesting that the
Australian
> government would not provide
> any startup help whatsoever. Let's hope nothing stops the release of
this
> new technology. It does
> seem that every time something like this comes along it is trashed by
> vested powers. It is not hard
> to imagine this technology powering cars and trucks, producing zero
> pollution and unlimited
> mileage.
>
>
>
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